========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 02:12:25 CST Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Luben Todorouski Subject: Re: Kire & Opozicijata In-Reply-To: <199410311312.HAA40658@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu>; from "M Petkovski" at Oct 31, 94 1:00 pm Napolno se slozuvam so tebe Misko stose odnesuva do opozicijata, samo bi sakal da nadopolnam nesto. Inaku sum (porano ne bas klucen, a sega voopsto neaktiven clen) na opozicijata (prvo MAAK a posle VMRO-DPMNE). Se razbira deka so site stavovi i site nastapi na site od clenovite na ovie partii ne se slozuvav i seuste ne se slozuvam. Moeto clenstvo vo ovie partii pred se se bazirase na mojot makedonski patriotizam i na faktot deka uste odamna pred da pocnaat da duvat vetrovite na demokratijata vo MK bev politicki determiniran kon desno. Sto se odnesuva do DP, imav sansa samo da go pratam nastanuvanjeto na partijata, bidejki vo meguvreme ja napustiv MK. Niv sudejki po lugeto koi ja formiraja partijata, (Gosev, Marijanovic, Panovski i dr.) pobrgu bi gi definiral kako partija na centarot (po malku desno orientirana). Razlikite megu DP i VMRO-DPMNE se sustestveni, taka da za nekoe pretopuvanje na VMRO vo DP negledam sansi a nitu ni realna osnova. So ova ne ja isklucuvam moznosta za koalicija. No problemot vo MK e vo toa sto ne postoi politicka atmosfera, koja bi dozvolila alijansa duri megu politicki subjekti so mnogu pobliski gledista i interesi. I opozicijata ne se pokaza imuna na nasledstvoto na bivsiot sistem i "brain wash"-ot. Samata organizacija na politickite partii vo MK, e primitivna. Site se organizirani po ugled na starit SK, so centralni komiteti. Aktivnosta i imidzot na partiite naj cesto se vrzani za edna licnost (liderot na partijata, koj e for ever) ili mala grupa okulu nego. Clenstvoto obicno treba samo da slusa, a ako ne se slozuva togas moze da si formira svoja partija (od tuka tolku mnogu partii vo tolku mala zemja). Idejata za partiski konvencii, frakcii i usoglasuvanja na interesi im e na site strana, kolku sto im bese stran poimot demokratija pred 15 god. Partiite ne izgledaat na politi- cki organizacii kade lugeto so isti i slicni interesi i idei se sobrani za da na najdobar nacin istite gi ostvarat, po pat na izlaganje na razliciti stavovi i gledista. Imamame samo odnos na ovcar i stado. Vo takva situacija pozicijata e nadmokna. Toj sistem od davna go imaat izgradeno i razraboteno i kako takov prirodno im lezi (uste od vremeto na Lenin). Zatoa posle edno nogiot starec si imame drug mudar starec (Big Nose and he realy sucks). Ne poradi negoviot golem nos, tuku celiot sistem na mudri starci i ovcari smrdi. Samo toj sistem ne bi postoel ako ne postojat ovci. A bez ovci nema ni sisanje. Po nekogas se prasuvam, dali opozicijata e dovolno vnatresno silna da go srusi ovoj sistem ili samo se obiduva da bide noviot ovcar. Da stane nov ovcar nema realni sansi, bodejki go ispusti vremeto (za razlika na situacijata vo Hrvatska na primer). Edina sansa i e vo vnatresno prestruktuiranje i toa dlaboko. Samo taka ke bide mokna da go srusi sistemot na post-kumunisticki primitivizam, koj voopsto ne e podobar od kumunizmot kako forma na drzaven kriminal svojstven za site totalitarni rezimi. Sto se odnesuva do VMRO, tuka ne bese samo romatizam vo prasanje tuku i hrabrost. Zatoa sega imame drzava (kakva takva). Pobedata e ocigledna. Pro jugoslovenskiot blok na partii stana Sojuz za Makedonija. A Jugoslavija ni e samo siromasen sosed. Za albanskiot problem, toj e opsto makedonski problem, nasleden od bivsa Jugoslavija. Ne gledam sustestvena razlika megu partiite od levo idesno. Levite samo go polzuvaat svojot prirodno vroden hipokritizam (bratstvo edinstvo=sozitelstvo). Hipokritizmot ne dava rezultati, samo gi odolzuva problemite, pravejki gi uste poteski. Resenieto go gledam vo noviot sistem, so koj i ovcarite na Albancite ke bidat otfrleni od igra (dosega kaj niv nekoi raboti dosta ubavo rabotat). Toa ke go likvidira postoenjeto na albanski partii vo Makedonija (albanski partii moze da ima samo vo Albanija). A problemot ke bide problem na malcinstva i toa ne isklucivo na nacionalni malcinstva (albancite se samo edno od nacionalnite malcinstva vo MK). Za koj problem iskreno pozeluvam da se resi najliberalno mozno, sto e del na tradiciite na makedonskoto osloboditelno dvizenje. Za DP vazat istite problemi. I pokraj faktot deka idejno poprilicno sum odalecen od niv, gi respectiram nekoi od nivnite vidni clenovi kako borci za demokratizacija (Marijanivic) i drzavno osamostojuvanje (Gosev, Panovski) na Makedonija. Samo se plasam da ne zaglavat vo vodite na malo-graganizmot, kako sto znaese Ligata za Demokratija da zaglavi porano. Tie mozebi ke bidat glavnata sila za gradenje na noviot sistem. Sepak resenieto go gledam vo edukacija vo nov oblik (privatni skoli, slobodni mediumi). A tuka po se izgleda makedonskata emigracija ke treba da dade pridones. A vo nea spagame i jas i ti Misko, kako i pogolem del na preplatnicite na MAKEDON. Blagodaram za vnimanieto Bube problem. Ne gledam sustestvena razlika megu partiite, levite samo svojot ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 19:02:13 PST Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Kiril Vidimce Skopje Makedonija Subject: Elections > > A sega kje te povikam LICHO i po IME I PREZIME da gi > > navedesh onie koi napravile pari so shverc na nafta > > i se finansieri na DP. > > Ako ne go napravish toa, kje te smetam za neseriozen. > > Ako bas te interesira, ke ti pratam mail licno. Namerno ne sakav da > spomenuvam iminja... Edniot indirektno i go kazav minatiot pat, ti A zoshto da ne gi spomenuvash iminjata? Barem DP nema partiska policija. > teknuva (minister vo prethodnata vlada, a?). Ako mislish na bivshiot min. za stopanstvo - kolku shto jas znam, toj ne e aktiven i toa bajagi vreme. > > Povtorno te povikuvam da gi navedesh po ime i prezime > > onie koi spored tebe razocharuvaat shto se prikluchile > > kon dotichnata partija i da navedesh zoshto istite > > treba da razocharuvaat. > > E zini da ti kazam... Izvini, ama povazno mi e prijatelstvoto so niv, > odkolku toa dali ti mene ke me smetas za seriozen ili neseriozen. A > pricinite gi navedov... (aj malce nie sega, dosta oni...) Strashno jako prijatelstvo e toa koga tie tolku te razocharale so nivnite izjavi. > > Zaprashaj se od kade mu se parite na G-dinot Frchkovski > > za noviot mercedes ili garderobata (sekogash se pojavuva > > vo garderoba so min. vrednost od 1500 DEM), koga na > > pochetokot od svojata ministerska rabota imashe samo > > velosiped i stari pantaloni? > > Ete... Tipicen primer za atak na licnost... Ima edna praksa koja tuka > se vika negativna kampanja (koga go napagjas konkurentot). Taa se > deli na napad na licnosta, i napad na sodrzinata. Veruvaj mi, vtorive > davaat podobri rezultati (provereno so istrazuvanja). 1. Mislam deka prvata kampanja masovno ja primenuvash vo tvoite diskusii. 2. Sekoja politichka lichnost vo edna drzhava, stanuva i javna, a so toa i javnosta ima pravo da bara informacii za negoviot zhivot. Kako del od taa javnost go postavuvam gorenavedenoto prashanje - kako toa nikoj da ne se najde pameten pa duri i da odgovori edno postaveno prashanje? > > Opozicijata, opozicijata, opozicijata, opozicijata.... > > Dali vo tvoite kritiki ima mesto i za pozicijata? > > Kontrapitanje.... Ima li vo TVOITE kritiki mesto i za opozicijata... Ima. Ne mi odgovori na moeto prashanje. KiRe ViDiMCHe =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - Kiril Vidimche - vkire@lotus.mk - "I hear and I forget. - = Bojmija 8/24 = kvidimce@a1.news.mk = I see and I remember. = = 91000 Skopje = Telephone: - I do and I understand" = - Republic of Macedonia - +389-91-411-125 = -Confucious - =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 19:02:39 PST Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Kiril Vidimce Skopje Makedonija Subject: Elections Vladimir Ogjanovski reche: > > Primer e. No pogledni so kogo kradele - ispagja > > deka LP se sekogash tamu kade shto treba da se > > krade, a bogami i 90% od parkiralishtata gi zedoa > > lugje od LP (publikuvano duri i od rezhimskite vesnici > > kako NM i Vecher). > > E, dobro... kradat, ama ne sami. Dali toa znaci deka koga opozicijata > ke bide sama na vlast nema da krade? Sega e primorana, posto neli LP > kradat, pa im turile noz pod grlo... Ili ke kradete i vie, ili... 1. Toa se nekoi gradski pratenici na VMRO-DPMNE koi kradele, a ne na (celokupnata) opozicijata. 2. Nekoi lekcii (ne site) VMRO-DPMNE gi nauchi, pa ovoj pat VMRO-DPMNE ima daleku podrugachija obrazovna struktura na svoite kandidati (mnogu povisoka), za razlika od prvite izbori. > > PROMENA? Zarem ne mislish deka tokmu ti dokazhuvash > > kolku kaj nas se' e crno i deka lugjeto poprvo bi ja > > prodale dushata na gjavolot za da otidat na zapad, otkolku > > da zhiveaat vo .mk, da rabotat po kafichi i da "zarabotuvaat > > 1000 DEM"? > > Lele... me videl Kire koga trguvav so gjavolot... Ti rekol nekoj deka si bukvalista? > Ssega na strana Kire, mnogu ti fala sto me prasa za ova... Za razlika > od tebe, sto edvaj cekas da izbegas i da ne se vratis (ne samo ti) > jas dojdov ovde za nesto sto se vika "strucno usovrsuvanje". Dojdov > da naucam nesto. Ako site razmisluvaat kako tebe, turi i pepel na > nasata tolku sakana (barem na jazik) makedonija, za koja ako treba i > zivotot ke go dademe... Ako bas te interesira, tamu mnogu podobro > ziveev nego tuka i (neznam dali ke mi veruvas, a i ne moras), mnogu > polesno se pravat pari vo Mk, nego tuka.... Samo treba da poglednes > okolu sebe i da otvoris oci. Uspehot ne vika "eve sum". Treba da se > potrudis malku. Da bilo taka lesno, site ke vozea BMW (son na site > makedoncinja). Od pogornoto mozhe da se zakluchi deka: 1. Tebe so sila te nateraa da odish na struchno usovrshuvanje, bidejkji ti vo nikoj sluchaj ne si sakal da ja napushtish "majka Makedonija" 2. Tolku ti bilo poubavo vo .mk da edvaj chekash da se vratish nazad (postojano se javuvash na airport da kupish avionska karta, ama stalno te ubeduvaat deka site se prodadeni) 3. Vo USA nema business - najdobriot business e vo .mk 4. Amerite pojma nemaat shto e toa zhivot, politika, business... seto toa go znaat mnogu podobro makedoncite ...a ustvari, IMHO, tvojata poenta lezhi vo tvoeto sfakjanje deka uspehot lezhi vo prikluchuvanje kon kriminalcite ("ako ne mozhesh da gi pobedish, pridruzhi im se"). KiRe ViDiMCHe =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - Kiril Vidimche - vkire@lotus.mk - "I hear and I forget. - = Bojmija 8/24 = kvidimce@a1.news.mk = I see and I remember. = = 91000 Skopje = Telephone: - I do and I understand" = - Republic of Macedonia - +389-91-411-125 = -Confucious - =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 18:51:27 PST Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Kiril Vidimce Skopje Makedonija Subject: Pechat Sasha Konechni reche: > Od ova mnogu dobro se gleda deka vo Makedonija ne mozhe da ima nezavisen > pechat. Nezavisen pechat mora da zhivee od prodavanje na primeroci. > So takov mal broj na prodadeni primeroci eden vesnik ne mozhe da opstane. > Zakluchok e deka vo Makedonija mozhe da postoi samo subsidiran pechat. > Koj mozhe da go subsidira pechatot? Ili drzhavata ili nekoj od nadvor. > Ako e drzavata togas se partiliite koi shto se na vlast. Ako e > od nadvor togash e USA ili Evropska Zaednica. 1. Za da pechatot ima visok tirazh - treba da se ima kvaliteten pechat 2. Koga drzhavata finansira vo pechatot, ne znachi deka finansiraat partiite koi se na vlast. Zarem ochekuvash deka koga kje se smeni vlasta, site novinari ednostavno kje si naprvat brainwash i od sledniot moment kje stanat provladini (nakloneti kon novata vlada)? > Isto e i sto pechatenje na knigi. Nikogash vo makedonija nema da ima > izbor na na pechateni knigi. Za da se isplati pechatenej na edna kniga > mora taa kniga da se prodade vo dovolno primeroci. No ovoj problem go > imaat i mnogu pogolemi i posilni zenji kako na primer Belgija i Holandija. > Na primer vo Belgija i Holandija ima okolu 20 miljioni luge koi > zboruvaat Holandski. > Vo Belgija i Holandija tehnichkata literatura 99% e na Angliski. A dali si videl stranska literatura vo Makedonija? Jas da - na sporadichni mesta i toa mnooogu shturo, obicho po samo eden primerok od sekoja kniga i toa site nabaveni ilegalno (chitaj shvercuvani) i plus so visoki (monopolistichki) ceni. Pozdrav, KiRe ViDiMCHe =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - Kiril Vidimche - vkire@lotus.mk - "I hear and I forget. - = Bojmija 8/24 = kvidimce@a1.news.mk = I see and I remember. = = 91000 Skopje = Telephone: - I do and I understand" = - Republic of Macedonia - +389-91-411-125 = -Confucious - =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 18:49:16 PST Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Kiril Vidimce Skopje Makedonija Subject: Glasanja Denes, pokraj drzhavnite izbori, se sproveduvashe i "glasanjeto" za novi izbori, organizirano od strana na opozicijata. Zborot glasanje go staviv pod navodnici, bidejkji ne se raboti za pravno glasanje so nekakvi pravni posledici i pravno legalni rezultati. Glasanjeto e zamisleno samo kako edno protestno simbolichko glasanje. Inaku, brojkite se ushte ne se poznati, no, sepak, objaveno e deka vo 50% od izbornite kutii postaveni vo opshtina Bitola (onie postaveni za naselenieto od gradot Bitola, bez selata) imalo okolu 13,000 livchinja. Tochnite rezultati se ochekuvaat utre napladne, koga kje se odrzhi press konferencija. Vo Skopje, glasanjeto beshe voglavnom organizirano na ploshtadot "Makedonija". Nekolku kutii bea postaveni i vo nekoi od perifernite naselbi na gradot Skopje, kako i po okolnite sela. Vo tekot na denshniot den, go posetiv plosthadot "Makedonija" dva pati, i toa okolu 12 chasot i okolu 17 chasot. I vo dvata termina, spored moja slobodna procenka, na plosthadot imashe okolu 2,000 lugje, koi se razbira ne stoeja (toa ne beshe miting), tuku se raboteshe za lugje koi chekaat na redici da glasaat ili se na minuvanje. Nimalku iznenaduvachki, golem del (ogromen) bea mladi i toa na 18-35 godishna vozrast. Ne mozhe a da ne se nametne prashanjeto deka, neli e najgolem dokaz deka vo ovaa drzhava neshto ne shtima, koga ogromen procent od mladinata (do 35 godini) ne se slozhuva so ona shto momentalno se sluchuva? Anyway, da prodolzham so ovoj neformalen "report". Paralelno so glasanjeto beshe ovozmozheno i zapishuvanje na razlichni komentari od strana na glasanjeto, komentari koi samo vo Skopje gi ima povekje od 40,000 (spored prvite viduvanja) i koi najverojatno kje bidat publikuvani vo najskoro vreme. Posle 18 chasot, bea zapaleni i pogolem broj svekji (toa se praveshe i vo tekot na celiot den, no, nemashe golem efekt zaradi dnevnata svetlina) koi sozdadoa interesna atmosfera. Ova mozham da go procenam samo od slikite koi gi vidov na TV i od ona shto mi go prenesoa drugi, bidejkji, kako shto vekje rekov, vo toa vreme ne bev na ploshtadot. Inaku, od drzhavnite izbori seushte nema nekakvi oficijalni rezultati. Spored nekoi neoficijalni rezultati, odzivot na glasachite se dvizhi od 20 do 50%. Kolkav e "vistinskiot" (spored drzhavnata izborna komisija), najverojatno kje doznaeme denovive, dodeka kolkav e vistinskiot odziv - najverojatno nikogash nema da doznaeme. Ako nekoj ima nekakvi prashanja neka poveli. Dokolku sum vo mozhnost, rado kje odgovoram. :) -------------------------------------------- Update (ponedelnichki) 1. Na deneshnata press konferencija, g. Petar Goshev, megju drugoto izjavi deka vo kutiite se izbrojani nad 450,000 glasachki livchinja za novi izbori. 2. Vchera, do 18:30 chasot, spored drzhavnata izborna komisija, odzivot na "drzhavnite" izbori iznesuvashe okolu 33-35%. Pozdrav, KiRe ViDiMCHe =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - Kiril Vidimche - vkire@lotus.mk - "I hear and I forget. - = Bojmija 8/24 = kvidimce@a1.news.mk = I see and I remember. = = 91000 Skopje = Telephone: - I do and I understand" = - Republic of Macedonia - +389-91-411-125 = -Confucious - =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 18:52:20 PST Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Kiril Vidimce Skopje Makedonija Subject: Elections Vladimir Ogjanovski reche: > > Premnogu lesno pomina preku temata za 'daleku > > od perfektno organizirani izbori'. Ako e taka, > > zoshto se priznavaat izborite? Zatoa shto i odgovora > > na garniturata koja go napravi haosot? Vo sekoja > > posthena zemja, za vakvi raboti - SAMATA vladata > > dava ostavka. Sakate primer - pred nekolku dena, > > vo Koreja se srushi most. Premierot VEDNASH ponudi > > ostavka (za tamu nekoj si most!). Koga toa kje se sluchi > > vo nashata zemja? > > Da pocekavme prvo da zavrsea izborite pa da gi komantirame... A? Ne i obrnuvash dostojno vnimanie na mojata komparacija. Veruvam deka istiot premier (koreanski) bi dal vednash ostavka so samiot chin na krshenje na Ustavot so nezatvaranje na izbirachkite spisoci, 8 dena pred izborite. > Bas bi sakal povekje informacii za taa ispoved na liceto... Koj e, od > kade e, na kakvo rabotno mesto bil, za kogo naviva vo izborive... Znaesh i samiot deka takvi informacii ne mozham da gi dadam (i onaka reche deka kontaktirash so Kiro G., pa verojatno prvo shto kje mu go kazhesh e imeto na novoinkriminiraniot), no, mozham samo da ti kazham deka se raboti za visok funkcioner od sluzhbite za javna bezbednost na MVR. Mozhebi naskoro kje mozhe i da se prochita neshto na ovaa tema, po mediumite. > Bas mi e zal za toa sto ne si dobil pokana. Ama i od mojata familija > nemle dobieno pokani. I stari i mladi. Ocekuvash aplauz na ova? Ili ednostavno go prenesuvash kako corpus delicti A za tvrdenjeto deka izborite se "apsolutno fer, demokraski i chesni". > > NIKOJ ne prevzede odgovornost okolu ovaa farsa, a ne mozhe > > da se sluchila od racete na nekoj drug. > E, za toa si u pravo. nekoj treba da leta od rabota... Kako na primer organizitarot - vladata? > > Onie chesnite si go kazhaa svoeto - Rafe Cherepnalkoski > > (chlen na Drzhavnata Izborna Komisija) dade ostavka vo > > koja se naveduvaat prichinite. > > Rafe da ne e clen na nekoja od opozicionite partii, ili barem > simpatizer? Ne e. > > Ako ima interesiranje, mozham da ja prenesam vo celost > > ostavkata na g-dinot Cherepnalkoski. > > Ima kire, ima... Ama te molam, daj ni malku "background" za covekot. Ushte malku trpenie - utre (se nadevam) kje ja pratam na MAKEDON. > > Najprvin, izborite se APLA lazhirani. > > Nikoj ne e vinoven dodeka ne se dokaze sprotivnoto (pressumed > innocent)... Za zhal, ne postoi pravna drzhava vo RM, pa za da mozhesh da dokazhuvash neshto. Nehsto slichno kako vo filmot Brief Pelican (ili beshe obratno - Pelican Brief?), ako si go gledal, se razbira. > Ocigledno situacijata so informiranjeto i ne e taka mracna, cim > citate i stranski vesnici. Bas me cudi kako "komunjarite" ne gi Aha, ne e strashna, osobeno zaradi faktot deka eden Financial Times e 160 MKD, t.e. 6.2 DEM. Kolku e vo London? > zabranile? A bas bi sakal da gi procitam tie statii. Mozes li da mi > navedes podatoci koga se objaveni, vo koi vesnici, datumi i sl. Edno > sto sakam jas da gi procitam, a drugo da vidam, brate dali toa ti si > gi procital ili ti gi raskazale. Dotichnite vesnici gi imav pred mene - taka da, mozhesh samo da me optuzhish deka lazham, a preostanuva auditoriumot da zakluchi koj lazhe, a koj ne, vo sluchajot. Ako uspeam povtorno da gi dobijam istite vesnici, kje go imash toa zadovolstvo da gi dobiesh i baranite podatoci. > > Se slozhuvam deka treba da se objavi vesta koja se > > ima vo toj moment, no, NE beshe objavena takva vest, > > tuku beshe objavena izmislena vest. > > Toa e spored tvoeto ubeduvanje... Inaku, izmislena vest ne postoi. > Vesta moze samo da bide vistinita ili nevistinita. Izmislena vest == nevistina. > > Od dve prichini: > > 1. Ne sum diplomat > > Toa sto ne si diplomat i ne e nekoj dokaz deka gi poznavas rabotitei > deka objektivno gi gledas (ova vtorovo osobeno se gleda...) No e dokaz za moeto lichno ubeduvanje, t.e. deka zad stavot shto go iskazhuvam stojam jas i lichno jas, a ne nekoja si sluzhba, drzhava itn. koja mi gi pishuva govorite, mi gi predodreduva slednite chekori i plus me plakja za seto toa. > > 2. Na stranskite zemji im odgovora nesposobna vlast, na > > koja kje mozhe da i se diktira nadvoreshnata i vnatreshnata > > politika => diplomatite davaat podrshki. > > Toa e povtorno tvoe licno, laicko gledanje na rabotite. Odamna ne sum > slusnal vakvo nezrelo razmisluvanje. Blagodaram za komplimentot. Od porakite koi gi isprati poslednite nekolku dena se zdobiv so vpechatok deka osobeno te biva za delenje komplimenti. IMHO, povekjeto diskutanti na MAKEDON vekje go delat istoto mislenje, pa mozhebi e vreme malku da go namalish istoto delenje, bidejkji site se uverija vo tvoite gorenavedeni kvaliteti? > > A deka vlasta e nesposobna, dokaz e i toa deka postojano, bez > > prestanok, se naglasuva shto stranskite diplomati ili vesnici > > rekle za ova ili za ona. Koga kje se napravi neshto, se cheka > > reakcija od stranskite mediumi, pa da se reche deka "ova beshe > > dobar poteg". > > Znaci spored tebe vlasta e sposobna ako od site strani, site vikaat > deka ne cini. Vlasta pravi poteg X => negativni kritiki od site > stranski mediumi => sposobna vlast. Bravo... Bas logicen zaklucok. Vlasta e sposobna togash koga samite posledici kje kazhuvaat kolku nejzinite potezi se pravilni ili ne i koga kje ima obraz i fakti da im ja objasni pravilnosta na nivnite potezi na poshirokata javnost, a ne da go pravi toa so nekakvi si napisi. KiRe ViDiMCHe =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - Kiril Vidimche - vkire@lotus.mk - "I hear and I forget. - = Bojmija 8/24 = kvidimce@a1.news.mk = I see and I remember. = = 91000 Skopje = Telephone: - I do and I understand" = - Republic of Macedonia - +389-91-411-125 = -Confucious - =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 19:01:20 PST Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Kiril Vidimce Skopje Makedonija Subject: Elections Zaradi moja greshka, del od porakata ne beshe prosleden, pa ovaa poraka ja isprakjam po vtor pat, so delot koj nedostasuvashe: Vladimir Ogjanovski reche: > > Da ne odime vo ekstremi... A, baska (iako ne go obozavam dzingo) > prasaj gi lugjeto od kratovo sto mislat za nego. Gi prashuvam (imam rodnini tamu). Vo DZingovo veruvam deka on the record, nikoj nema ni da se obide da kazhe nekoj losh zbor za nego. Probaj da gi prashash off the record i kje se iznenadish. > > Ne. Demokratija e koga prevzemash tuzhba, i ako ti > > e osnovana, se presuduva vo tvoja korist. Demokratija > > NE e koga ne podnesuvash (opravdana) tuzhba, samo > > zatoa shto znaesh deka rezhimskiot sud nema da presudi > > vo tvoja korist. > > Prvo podnesi,pa pocekaj da vidis dali ke ja odbijat, pa sudi dali > sudot e rezimski ili ne. Lesno e da se opravduvas kako ne si podnel > tuzba, zatoa sto odnapred znaes deka ke ja odbijat. Vidovitost?!! Znaat zaradi prethodno podneseni tuzhbi koi bi bile ochigledni i vo nekoi banani-drzhavi. Samo pogledni gi prigovorite. Site 116 na DP i >90 na VMRO-DPMNE se odbieni. Ne sluchajno gi spomenuvam prigovorite samo na ovie dve partii - vo izbornata edinica 103, g-dinot Tortevski (DP), megju drugoto, naveduva deka izborite vo negovata i.e. treba da se ponishtat bidejkji nastanalo ochigledno krshenje na zakonot za izborni edinici, pri shto gragjani koi treba da glasaat vo i.e. 103, bile upatuvani vo i.e. 108 i obratno. Prigovorot na g-dinot Tortevski e odbien, dodeka POTPOLNO istiot prigovor na kandidat za pratenik od strana na Republikanskata partija, od i.e. 108 e PRIFATEN i e ponishteno glasanjeto vo 7-8 izborni mesta vo istata izbornata edinica. Objasnuvanje? > > Deka javnite glasila vo Makedonija se rezhimski, neobjektivni, > > provladini i prodolzhena raka na partiite na vlast - *fakt*. > > Zasnovan na sto? Na nivnata celokupna rabota. 50 godini so "Nova Makedonija" ...SIGURNO! > > Deka mediumite, direktno ili indirektno upravuvani od strana > > na VMRO-DPMNE (Glas, Delo, KRT) se isto shto i rezhimskite > > vesnici, samo od obratnata strana - *fakt*. > > Izvini, ama Delo za sebe tvrdi deka e nezavisen vesnik. Ostaj ti Delo shto tvrdi. I rezhimskite vesnici tvrdat deka ne se rezhimski. > > Koga ja spomena Demokratija (inaku glasnik na SDSM), veruvam > > deka misleshe na Demokratski Forum (glasnik na DP). > > Ocigledno rabotite si pocnal da gi pratis pred kratko vreme. Vednas > po osamostojuvanjeto na makedonija, izleguvase eden vesnik sto se > vikase demokratija. Prvo se zaleta da bide dneven vesnik, po 1 mesec > se transformirase vo nedelnik, pa sega ne znam, verojatno stanal > desetogodisnik. Sluchajno da ne mislish na "Republika"? Vesnik "Demokratija" nikogash nema postoeno (a da prestaneshe i so tvoite kvalifikuvanja?). > Ne postoi zavisno ili nezavisno novinarstvo (glasilo). Ima objektivno > i neobjektivno. Imaat potpolno isto znachenje vo kontekstot, pa ne gledam potreba od igranje so zborovi. > > "Da ne se lazheme", Makedonecot ne e ljubitel na > > pishaniot zbor bidejkji vo Makedonija praktichno i > > ne postoi pishan zbor. Koga posleden pat vo Makedonija > > si videl KVALITETNA kniga, napishana od stranski avtor, > > a prevedena na makedonski i pechatena od makedonska > > izdavachka kukja? > > Koga posleden pat si videl prevod na makedonski jazik na > > nekoja struchna kniga? > > Koga posleden pat si videl makedonski kvaliteten i objektiven > > dneven vesnik? > > I posle ochekuvash Makedonecot da e ljubitel na pishaniot > > zbor? > > Imase kire, imase... Ama lezea na zaliha. Ushte eden od odlichnite potezi na garniturata? > > Ne znam od kade ti se brojkite, no, momentalno, tirazhot > > na Nova Makedonija e okolu 7.000, dodeka na Vecher - 6.000. > > A od kade ti se tebe. Da ne te izvestuva licno odgovorniot za tiraz > vo NM? Ako tolku te interesira od kade mi se mene, mozam da ti pratam > mail licno. Ne me interesira ni najmalku. Ako gi kazhesh tuka, kje gi prochitame, otherwise, ne mi trebaat. A od kade jas znam - 2 meseci (pred 1 godina i 9 meseci) bev vo srceto na mehanizmot na "Nova Makedonija", a povekje od 8 meseci (do pred 1 godina do pred 4 meseci) bev i honorarec-novinar na dodatokot za kompjuteri, objavuvan vo Vecher. A bidejkji jas ne si igram "Krienka" i ne nudam nekakvi si tajni mail-ovi (ushte PGP javna shifra da mi pobarash i se' kje stane prilichno interesno :), kje ti kazham deka brojkite se dobieni lichno od g-dinot direktor na pechatnica. KiRe ViDiMCHe =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - Kiril Vidimche - vkire@lotus.mk - "I hear and I forget. - = Bojmija 8/24 = kvidimce@a1.news.mk = I see and I remember. = = 91000 Skopje = Telephone: - I do and I understand" = - Republic of Macedonia - +389-91-411-125 = -Confucious - =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 19:03:25 PST Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Kiril Vidimce Skopje Makedonija Subject: Transliteracija Ne prochitav nikakvi komentari na tekstot za transliteracija? 1. Po koj raspored kje pishuvame na ovaa lista? 2. Zainteresirani li ste za file-ovite koi gi spomenav? 3. Kje voveduvame li paralelno kirilichno/latinichno pishuvanje? Pozdrav, KiRe ViDiMCHe =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - Kiril Vidimche - vkire@lotus.mk - "I hear and I forget. - = Bojmija 8/24 = kvidimce@a1.news.mk = I see and I remember. = = 91000 Skopje = Telephone: - I do and I understand" = - Republic of Macedonia - +389-91-411-125 = -Confucious - =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 19:02:57 PST Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Kiril Vidimce Skopje Makedonija Subject: Civilizacija Do site diskutanti na MAKEDON mail listata. Poslednite nekolku dena, golem del od diskuiite preogjaat vo pogreshen pravec. Tonot se povekje stanuva cinichen, porakite navredlivi, a celite na diskusiite se povekje stanuvaat izvitopereni. Zarem ne mislite deka nemame nikakva potreba od gubenje energija na takvi bezpotrebni raboti? Pozdravi, KiRe ViDiMCHe =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - Kiril Vidimche - vkire@lotus.mk - "I hear and I forget. - = Bojmija 8/24 = kvidimce@a1.news.mk = I see and I remember. = = 91000 Skopje = Telephone: - I do and I understand" = - Republic of Macedonia - +389-91-411-125 = -Confucious - =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 00:10:59 PST Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Kiril Vidimce Skopje Makedonija Subject: Humor #1 Baravte humor. :) Deset storii za da vi go razubavat denot. Samo nemojte ni sluchajno da gi pokazhuvate na vashiot sysadm. Mozhe da dobie nasty ideas. :> BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL #1 I'm still bored. But at least now the radio's off, it was on it's 12 repeat of "Wildfire" THIS WEEK, and it's only Tuesday; shit I hate that. So anyway, I quicklime the engineer to remove any fingerprints and then FedEx him back to headquarters and set about waiting for the engineer. Now the second engineer only has to come out after another 4 hours, there's no death of engineer penalty clause, (but I'm thinking about asking for one) so I've got to fill in some time. This guy's going to be a technical engineer, the sort that comes in with a raggedy tie where he got it caught in the drum printer at 3000 rpm a couple of years ago, and he'll have the grazes on the face that indicate that he didn't get the gate open in time... I know these sorts... So I fill in a couple of hours by killing users off and deleting their files, then waiting for them to call... "Um, I can't find my files" the wimpering simp on the phone says "Files? What files?" "The files in my account. My thesis, my research - all gone!" "Gone ay? What's your username?" "TURGEN" "TROJAN?! LIKE THE CONDOM?" "No TURGEN. T-U-R" "OH Turgen, like TURD, but with a GEN instead of a D... Ok lets see" I make vague clicking noises my dragging the quicklimed man's fingers back and forth across the keypad. "Uh-huh" >drag drag< "Yeah.." >dragedy poke< "AH! - You haven't got any files" "I KNOW!" "Well, what are you calling ME for? We don't make the files you know, we just look after them. And chopitty-chop too, your thesis looks like it's due in a couple of days.." I hang up - he'll call back. Meantime I open up a copy of "VMS BASTARD OPERATORS MANUAL FROM HELL" I'm reading the article I sent in about getting rid of those trouble users... "... Modify the user's password minimum from 6 to 32 letters, give the password a 1 day lifetime, set it so that they HAVE to use the password generate utility when they change their password (so their password will always be something that looks like vaguely pronouncable line-noise), add a secondary password with the same as the above, then redefine their CLI tables so that the only command that works is DELETE, and all other commands point to it." Beautiful. Shit I'm good. He calls back. "MY FILES ARE GONE!" he screams, panicking. "Did you have a backup?" I ask, as sweet as pie. "But that's what you people are supposed to do!" he sobs. "Yeah, well we did - but then we switched to those 8mm tapes, and they're the same size as the ones in my video camera, so I've been using them to tape the neighbour's sex romps..." I hear the revolver go off, but what the hell, it's 5pm, and not my problem... KiRe ViDiMCHe =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - Kiril Vidimche - vkire@lotus.mk - "I hear and I forget. - = Bojmija 8/24 = kvidimce@a1.news.mk = I see and I remember. = = 91000 Skopje = Telephone: - I do and I understand" = - Republic of Macedonia - +389-91-411-125 = -Confucious - =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 00:11:31 PST Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Kiril Vidimce Skopje Makedonija Subject: Humor #2 BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL #2 I'm sitting at the desk, playing x-tank, when some thoughtless bastard rings me on the phone. I pick it up. "Hello?" I say. "Who is this?" they say "It's me I think" I say, having been through a telephone skills course. "Me Who?" "Is this like a knock knock joke?" I say, trying anything to save myself having to end this game. Too LATE! I get killed. Now I'm pissed! "What can I do for you?" I ask pleasantly - (one of the key warning signs) "Um, I want to know if we have a particular software package.." "Which package is that?" "Uh, B-A-S-I-C it's called." >clickety clickety d-e-l b-a-s-i-c.e-x-e< "Um no, we don't have that. We used to though.." "Oh. Oh well, the other thing I wanted to know was, could the contents of my account be copied to tape to I have a permanent copy of them to save at home in case the worst happens.." "The worst?" "Well, like they get deleted or something..." "DELETED! Oh, don't worry about that, we have backups" (I'm such a *shit*) "What was your username?" He gives me his username. (What an idiot) >clickety clikc< "But you haven't got any files in your account!" I say, mock surprise leaping from my vocal chords. "Yes I have, you must be looking in the wrong place!" So first he spoils my x-tank game, and now he's calling me a liar... >clickety click< "Oh no, I made a mistake" I say Did he mutter "typical" under his breath? Oh dear, oh dear.. "I MEANT TO SAY: That username doesn't exist" "Huh? >wimper< It must do, I was only using it this morning!" "Ah well, that'll be the problem, there was a virus in our system this morning, the... uh... De Vinci Virus, wipes out users who are logged in when it goes off." "That can't be right, my girlfriend was logged in, and I'm in her account now!" "Which one was that?" He tells me the username. Some people NEVER learn.. "Oh, yeah, her account was just after we discovered the virus." >clickety clikc< "..she only lost all her files" "But..." "But don't worry, we've got them all on tape" "Oh, thank goodness!!!" "Paper tape. Have you got a magnifying glass and a pencil. SEE YOU IN THE MACHINE ROOM!!!! NYAHAHAHAHAHA!" I'm such a prick! KiRe ViDiMCHe =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - Kiril Vidimche - vkire@lotus.mk - "I hear and I forget. - = Bojmija 8/24 = kvidimce@a1.news.mk = I see and I remember. = = 91000 Skopje = Telephone: - I do and I understand" = - Republic of Macedonia - +389-91-411-125 = -Confucious - =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 00:13:08 PST Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Kiril Vidimce Skopje Makedonija Subject: Humor #4 BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL #4 It's a thursday, and I'm in a good mood. It's payday. I think I'll take some calls. I put the phone back on the hook. It rings. "I've been trying to get you for hours!" the voice at the other end screams. "Not, it can't be hours" I say, putting Blade Runner back into it's cover and looking at the back, "it was more like 114 minutes. I was on a long phone call with the big boss, trying to get you users some better facilities" Hook; Line; and Sinker... "Oh. I'm sorry." "That's ok, I'm a tolerant person" I make a mental note to change his password to something nasty in the next couple of days. "Um, I need to know how to rename a file" he says. Oh dear... Hang on, it's payday isn't it?! I'm in a good mood. "Sure. You just go 'rm' and the filename" "Thanks" "No worries" (Now I'm in a REALLY good mood. I think I just might write that script to make saving impossible on rogue at random times like I've been thinking about) The phone rings again. "Hello?" "Hi there" I say "Is this the Operators?" "Yes it is" I say, nice as pie. "Could you get my printouts out please. I need them urgently, and I printed them over 5 minutes ago". "Your username?" I ask He gives it to me, and I write it down for later. "No worries at all!" I say, and head to the printers. There's a HUUUUUUUGE pile of printouts there, and sure enough, his is at the top of the pile. I pick it up, split it out of the rest and pour our ink-stained cleaning alcohol all over it, run it over a couple of times with the loaded tape trolley then slam it in the tape safe door some times as well. Beautiful. "Here's your printout" I say "Sorry about the delay, we've got a few printer problems." He takes a look and shits himself. "Well, can I print it again?" he asks, worried. "Sure you can" I say "But no promises, the printer's a bit stuffed today". "Well can I print it on laser - is that working?" "Yeah of course, but that'll cost you" I say, oozing compassion for the geek. "It doesn't matter about the cost, THIS IS URGENT!" I slide-on back into the printer room and put in the toner cartridge we save for special occasions - the one that prints thick black lines down the middle of the page and is all faint on one side. It took me quite a while to make it like that too. The printout shoots through and I bring it out immediately. I don't want to miss this! "W-w-what's happened to my printout?" he geek-squeals at me. Lucky I wrote that username down - I'm really starting to develop a taste for torture. "Well nothing. I mean sure, it's a little soiled, but that cartridge has already done 47 thousand pages and been refilled 17 times. It's quite good compared to some we get" Geek pays up and starts blubbing. "Hey now. There's no reason to cry! Have you got a disk with your work on it?" He gives me a box of diskettes and I step inside and run them across the bulk eraser. I come back out again. "Sorry, I just remembered, our machine is on the fritz, you'll have to take these to the other side of campus to the machine there, it'll print them ok, and it had a brand-new toner yesterday." "GREAT!" "No worries. Oh, and hold the disks above your head the whole way there, the earth's magnetic field is particularly strong today." "Huh?" "No arguements, just do it." He wanders off, hand held high. Shit I hate myself sometimes. KiRe ViDiMCHe =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - Kiril Vidimche - vkire@lotus.mk - "I hear and I forget. - = Bojmija 8/24 = kvidimce@a1.news.mk = I see and I remember. = = 91000 Skopje = Telephone: - I do and I understand" = - Republic of Macedonia - +389-91-411-125 = -Confucious - =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 00:14:01 PST Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Kiril Vidimce Skopje Makedonija Subject: Humor #5 BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL #5 I'm bored senseless, so I pass the time by reading users email. I must admit that today's lot is PARTICULARLY boring, not one good message in all of them. I was expecting at LEAST some veiled reference to a grope in a storeroom, but nothing. So I'm bored senseless by the usual drivel about some relative's surgery and how the weather is over the other side of the world - that sort of crap. To relieve the boredom, I remove a e-mail party invite from a user's mail and post it under the senders username to alt.singles.with.severe.social. dysfunctions on news, and make a note in my diary to be there with my camcorder. Should be a blast! Next in line is the online medical records database, in which the company doctors store the current medical histories of the staff. I grep it quickly for "herpes" and "syphillus" and sell the results to the local scum newspaper. I cover my tracks by adding an entry to one of the doctor's online electronic diarys for yesterday saying "$500, Med Recs To Paper" I think that's all it should take.. I move some tapes from the racks to the trolley to make it look like we really use them, then start looking thru archie listings for a hidden x-gif site. I find one then start a batch job running under some user's account to get them all back, charged to him. I make sure he's got enough disk for the job by removing any files not related to the task at hand. Like all those "Doctorate Final Report" papers that have got quite large in the last couple of weeks. I go back to the mail now, as something's bound to have happened. I do a grep on all mail files for the words "pregnant" and "family way", and post them anonymously to the local general interest newsgroup. Then, before anything can happen, the power goes out! The next second, the phone rings. "Hello?" I say, annoyed - the coyote was just about to kill roadrunner again! "Has the comput.." I hang up. This is a matter of life or death. Quick as I can I rip the computer power cable out of the UPS and plug the TV in. Damn! Wylie missed again! Meantime, all the alarms are going off like crazy as the disks spin down, but that's ok, because my Mac and Terminal are hardwired to the UPS in any case; and I'm at the Beer Factory level in Dark Castle too. The phone rings, so I pull the PABX breaker on the UPS switchboard and it stops. Now to look like I'm working. I break out the puck and the hockey stick and play a little one-on-wall. From the observation window it'll look like I'm being blindingly efficient, as per usual. 10 Minutes later, the power is back and we're two HDA's down, but what the hell, I haven't lost a man, I'm onto the final screen, and there's more cartoons! The phone rings, it's a luser. (What a surprise) "Computer Room" I say, being efficient "Hello, when will the compu..." I hang up. I'm doing well in the screen, all I need do is get past the wizard who throws spells at you and I'm in! The phone rings again. I put it on hands free. "Computer Room" I shout, still deep in the game. "I've lost my files" a user whines over the loudspeaker "You bet you have" I say, as my concentration lapses just long enough for me to get zapped by the wizard. "What was your username?" I say, all sweetness and smiles He tells me, I look, and he's right. Shit, and I didn't even do it! Not to be outdone, I change his login directory to the null device, set his path to "." and redefine the command "news" to execute a script in his old login directory to send a nasty message to the equal opportunities officer, then delete itself. Now that's trying! KiRe ViDiMCHe =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - Kiril Vidimche - vkire@lotus.mk - "I hear and I forget. - = Bojmija 8/24 = kvidimce@a1.news.mk = I see and I remember. = = 91000 Skopje = Telephone: - I do and I understand" = - Republic of Macedonia - +389-91-411-125 = -Confucious - =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 00:15:59 PST Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Kiril Vidimce Skopje Makedonija Subject: Humor #7 BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL #7 So I manage AT LONG LAST, to get a couple of hours off for lunch, AND, because I can't leave my desk unattended, I get the janitor in and have him sit in my chair. I tell him that all he has to do is make sure the receiver doesn't accidentally get put back on the hook. He agrees and I'm off. First stop, the bank. I change a $50 note into quarters and then ask to see a balance of my account. Then I yank the power lead out of the teller's vdu. It dies. I say I'm in a hurry and is the manager around? He rolls over like a man-sized twinkie and asks what the problem is. I say that all I want is a balance of my accounts. I cross my fingers. YES! He finds the vdu lead out, plugs it in, and logs in, TO THE MANAGER'S ACCOUNT. Now's my chance - I slip up against the counter, slopping 200 coins across the counter. The manager ignores it, but all the tellers dive for the money. I watch, unobserved, as the manager types in his password at the breakneck speed of one character a minute. At that rate I should've got $100 worth.... He finishes typing. "MONEY". What a toughy! Well, that's my mortgage taken care of tonight... A user that I recognise from "D(eletion) day '89" approaches. I think he's going to talk to me. Even the bank manager is shaking his head furiously. But it's too late, he stops. "Um, excuse me, Could you tell me what is the best computer to buy to do my thesis on? ?! Right. "You've heard of Commodore 64's?" I ask "Yes?.." "Avoid them like the plague! Not many people know this, but computers aren't made to handle that much memory - it's over 64,000 things, more in some cases. It's a recipe for disaster!" "Oh!" "Try something safe and proven. A ZX81 with dual cassette drive if you can get it. The 1K ram model. Write that down. Don't buy a disk drive - You know how they're always failing, but music cassettes last forever!" "Hey thanks!" "No worries. What was your username again?" He tells me. Just in time for D-Day 92. You'd think they'd learn. I get back to work and the janitor's asleep at the terminal. I ask him if he wants to work here too, but he likes the ability to bust in on people when they're in the toilet... I put the phone back on the hook, and straight away it rings. I hate it when it does that, it takes me AGES to get my walkman phones in. It's the hottest hosemonster I've ever met, and she's got a computer problem! I love it when that happens! "What's your username?" I ask She tells me (as if I didn't know) Quick as I can I read all her e-mail (mostly boring stuff), then grep everyone else's mail files for her username. Nothing. Excellent! "What's the problem?" I ask, all smiles and charm. "I can't save my documents, it says something about space." "Not a problem for long" I say, and delete everyone else on the same disk as her. "You should be fine now.." "Thank you so much" she gushes. I make a mental note to do something to her account again tomorrow. "No worries." The phone rings almost before I've got it on the hook. "My files are all gone!" a voice whines out at me. "When did this happen?" I ask. "Just now..." he says, through the tears. "I see. Well, I wouldn't worry, there's three days till the end of the semester, if you work day and night until then, you should get at least a C-" He sobs a couple more times then hangs up. What a wimp. THE PHONE RINGS AGAIN! "The screen on my PC is really dim". The woman at the other end says "Should I wind the brightness knob up?" "NO!" I scream "Don't touch that knob! Have you any idea of the radiation that comes out of that thing when the knob gets wound up?!!!!" "Well I..." she says, all uncertain "TAKE MY ADVICE!" I say "There's only ONE way to fix a dim display, and that's by power surging the drivers" The words "power surging" and "drivers" have got her. People hear words like that and go into dummy mode and do ANYTHING you say. I could tell her to run naked across campus with a powercord rammed up her backside and she'd probably do it... Hmmm... "Have you got a spare power cord?" "No.." "Oh well, never mind, we'll have to do the power surge idea... Ok, quick as you can, I want you to flick the power switch of your PC on and off 30 times" "Should I take my disks out?" "NO! Do you want to lose all your data!?!" "Oh. No! Ok.." I listen carefully.. .. ...clicky..clikcy...clikky.. .. .. ...clicky. ...cliccy.. . . BOOM! Amazing, it probably made it to 27 - the power supply usually shits itself at 15 or so... "MY COMPUTER BLEW UP!!!" she screams at me down the line "Really? Must've been a dodgy power supply! Lucky we found out now! Is your machine still under warranty?" "NO!" "Dear oh dear. Well, Best get it repaired then. Did you backup your files?" "Yes, to the system, Yesterday, but all this morning's work is gone!" "Oh dear. What was your username, I'll just check that your backups worked ok?" She tells me.... KiRe ViDiMCHe =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - Kiril Vidimche - vkire@lotus.mk - "I hear and I forget. - = Bojmija 8/24 = kvidimce@a1.news.mk = I see and I remember. = = 91000 Skopje = Telephone: - I do and I understand" = - Republic of Macedonia - +389-91-411-125 = -Confucious - =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 00:16:48 PST Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Kiril Vidimce Skopje Makedonija Subject: Humor #8 BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL #8 I'm at my desk as usual, and a user calls. "Hello Computer Room, Simon here, How can I help" I answer "I can't get into my account!" A user mumbles at me. "What was your username please?" I say They give me their username. No worries. I look in their account. "No worries, it was just a badly made login file. I've fixed it, you should be able to login." "Thanks!" "No worries. Have a nice day!" WHAT IS THIS? you're asking yourself. Has the BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL turned over a new leaf? Sold out?! GONE INSANE?!!! Nope. The BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL is being logfiled. And if that's happen-ing, I'm being bugged as well. So I'm being nice till I can find the bugs. It shouldn't be long - bear with me. Ah. One in the phone handpeice. Basic. But then the boss is a sneaky sort, so there's probably a couple more. Ah! And another in the base of the phone and one inside my keyboard. Time for a mad coffee-spilling frenzy. This is a big job, so I bring the whole jug over and wait for a witness. The System Manager comes in. "Where's that report of mine?" he asks in a surly manner - he's obviously pissed that I haven't implicated myself yet. Antagonist Identified. As the Principal of "BASTARD OPERATOR SCHOOL" (me) will tell you, "There's no problem so large it can't be solved by killing the user off, deleting their files, closing their account and reporting their REAL earnings to the IRS" I pull his printout from under the coffee jug where I put it, and the coffee splashes all over the phone and keyboard, which for some reason were stacked on top of each other. "Woopsy!" I say, mock horror on my face. The System Manager's face tells me I was right in my guess. "Don't think you'll get away with this!" he snarls and stomps off. I click on the ethernet monitor and watch the traffic coming out of his PC. Ah! A memo, authorising the termination of my contract, going to the laser in the director's office. I make a few alterations to the file in the spool directory and let it go to it's destination. I run my dinky little program that deposits -522 to the PC and our mainframe shits itself. Later, while booting, I'll remove that nasty logfile business. Next, I wander into the comms room and plug my earphone into the spare RS232 port in the Directors office. It's amazing how simple it is to bug an office once it's got data lines going to it! Director: "Are you sure about this?" SysMgr: "OF COURSE!" Director: "You don't want to reconsider?" SysMgr "NEVER!" Director: "Very well, I'll fax it to staffing now.." SysMgr "EXCELLENT!" Two seconds later the System Manager strolls in smiling. "Well, I'll really miss you Simon.." he says, full of himself. "Oh?" I say, all sweetness and charm "Where are you going?" "No Simon" he says, with glee "You're going" "A PROMOTION!" I say "You've finally written that letter to the head of staffing telling him he's a bum-sucking arse bandit and that you quit?" "No..." "Are you sure? It's much better than the one about me being fired.." "Y.." His eyes widen slightly It's like clubbing a seal to death with a foam cushion. He runs to stop the fax. Only, having just resigned, >clicky cklikcy< his card key no longer works... Ametuers... The Phone rings. It's the same guy as before. "I can get into my account now, but I've run out of disk" "Hang on, I'll see what I can do" >clicccky<... rm -r * KiRe ViDiMCHe =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - Kiril Vidimche - vkire@lotus.mk - "I hear and I forget. - = Bojmija 8/24 = kvidimce@a1.news.mk = I see and I remember. = = 91000 Skopje = Telephone: - I do and I understand" = - Republic of Macedonia - +389-91-411-125 = -Confucious - =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 00:17:40 PST Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Kiril Vidimce Skopje Makedonija Subject: Humor #9 BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL #9 I'm driving to work and I'm stuck behind this old guy, the classic slow driver from hell, whose car red-lines at 20 mph and can't take corners at more than 5. I honk my horn but his hearing aid's probably turned way down to "whisper", so I'm stuck. I make a mental note of his license plate. In fact, I did that 60 times a minute for 15 and a half minutes. Oh dear.. oh dear.... Looks like another call to the DMV Database to register a vehicle as stolen by out of town arms dealers... I get to work, flick the excuse page over. "ELECTROMAGNETIC RADIATION FROM SATTELLITE DEBRIS". Fair enough, it looks like it's going to be a good day. I log into "FUCKYOU", (the help-desk enquiries username) and go into mail. There's 3 new messages, the first of which is 117 lines long, so it's obviously a storyteller. Shit, I hate that. Instead of saying "My account needs more disk space" they tell you about how they're doing this bit of research for a lecturer and how it's got to be in yesterday, and they almost had it but their second cousing twice removed had a perforated herpes scab and lost a lot of blood and had to be rushed into hospital... etc etc. I delete the message. Second message I read, but it's one of those people who can't handle the mail interface and send a null message, so all you get is headers. I reply to the message saying "No worries, we can do that by next tuesday". Hope it was important. The last message I leave for tommorrow, because Saturday would be a dull day if I ever had to work then. The phone rings. I thought I'd fixed that! I put it on hands free so I can slop some pizza into the microwave. "Yes" I call "Something's wrong with my Boot disk, I can't login to the server". "Have you got your disk with you?" "Sure!" I go get the disk and put it and the pizza in for 5 minutes on "ULTRA-NUKE". Six minutes later, he rings back. "It still doesn't work, and now my disk makes a funny noise and smells." "OH SHIT! It's that electromagnetic radiation from satellite debris again!" "Really? I think I heard about that!" (What a tool!) "Yep, I'm sorry, you'll have to buy another disk" "Oh, that's ok, I don't mind, the old one was getting worn. Thanks" "Sure, no worries. And be sure to run it through our virus checker FDISK when you get a lot of important data on it..." "I will! Thanks!" "That's Ok - it's my job!" Xcbzone is running really slow so I kill off a whole lot of database backends that seem to be hogging all the cpu and get back into my game. Much better. It isn't easy on the frontline, work work work... I go to the cafeteria for a quick 2 hour snack - they're so nice to me there. They always have been, ever since that computer glitch that registered their kitchen as an organ recipient - very messy. I grab a couple of cans of coke and some cheese things and cruise on back to the office via the first year computer funamentals lab. I look in the window on the scene that unfolds itself to me - a lab full of first years with no demonstrator. WELL I'LL JUST HAVE TO HELP! I walk on in. "Right, I'm your temporary replacement demonstrator and today we're going to put our assignments aside for half an hour to learn about the REMARK function, or, as it's known to the computer literate world, rm.." I should have been a teacher you know - I've got this way with people... KiRe ViDiMCHe =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - Kiril Vidimche - vkire@lotus.mk - "I hear and I forget. - = Bojmija 8/24 = kvidimce@a1.news.mk = I see and I remember. = = 91000 Skopje = Telephone: - I do and I understand" = - Republic of Macedonia - +389-91-411-125 = -Confucious - =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 00:18:06 PST Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Kiril Vidimce Skopje Makedonija Subject: Humor #10 BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL #10 I get invited to a lecture as a guest speaker in "Computing Operations Fundamentals", so I leave the control room in the capable hands of Sam, the janitor and cruise on down. The lecture starts and goes ok, then there's a 10 minute period where students get to ask a "real operator" questions that they have about operations. I get out my pad and pen. "Before we get started" I say, "could you just call out your username before you ask me a question, I find it easier to apply your problem to terms you would understand better" The lecturer eats all this up - the personal touch really gets to them. "First Question, You over there.." "What do you think of the privacy of individuals on a shared system?" "What was your username please?" "CMS1103" KiRe ViDiMCHe =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - Kiril Vidimche - vkire@lotus.mk - "I hear and I forget. - = Bojmija 8/24 = kvidimce@a1.news.mk = I see and I remember. = = 91000 Skopje = Telephone: - I do and I understand" = - Republic of Macedonia - +389-91-411-125 = -Confucious - =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 00:14:48 PST Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Kiril Vidimce Skopje Makedonija Subject: Humor #6 BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL #6 It's friday, so I get into work early, before lunch even. The phone rings. Shit! I turn the page on the excuse sheet. "SOLAR FLARES" stares out at me. I'd better read up on that. Two minutes later I'm ready to answer the phone. "Hello?" I say. "WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN, I'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET YOU ALL MORNING?!" I hate it when they shout at me early in the morning. It always puts me in a bad mood. You know what I mean. "Ah, yes. Well, there's been some solar activity this morning, it always disrupts electronics..." I say, sweet as a sugar pie. "Huh? But I could get through to my friends?!" "Yes, that's entirely possible, solar activity is very unpredictable in it's effects. Why last week, we had some files just dissappear from a guys account while he was working on it!" "Really?" "Straight Up! Hey, do you want me to check your account?" "Yes please, I've got some important stuff in there!" "Ok, what's your username..." He tells me. Honestly, it's like shooting a fish in a barrel. Twice. With an Elephant Gun. At point blank range. In the head. (Do I really need to tell you the clicky clicky bit? I think not) "How many files are in your account?" I ask "Um, well there should be about 20 in my thesis writeup, 10 or so with the data for it, and another 20 or so in a book that I'm writing" "Hmmm. Well, I think we caught it just in time. You've still got 2 files left... .cshrc and .login" "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaggggggggghhhh!" He sobs into the receiver a bit - it really turns my stomach. "What can I do?" he sniffs. "Ok, do you have any of your stuff backed up on floppy?" "Some, but it's weeks old!" I fire up the bulk eraser. "Ok" I say "How about I come out and load all that data onto your account pronto so you can get some work done?" "That'd be great, but it's all at home" he wimpers. "I spose I'll just load it all in myself tonight" "Sure. But remember what I said, solar flares are bad for disks and machines. Protect your disks from solar activity to prevent them losing their data" "How do I do that? Wrap them in tin-foil?" "NO! TIN FOIL'S THE WORST THING! YOU KNOW WHAT TIN FOIL DOES IN A MICROWAVE DON'T YOU?!" "Yes.." "Then don't use it. There's only one thing that protects disks from solar activity.." "What's that?" "MAGNETS. Wrap your disks up in a pillow case with lots of magnets - Solar Flares hate that" "Wow! Thanks" "No worries at all..." Shit I'm good! KiRe ViDiMCHe =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - Kiril Vidimche - vkire@lotus.mk - "I hear and I forget. - = Bojmija 8/24 = kvidimce@a1.news.mk = I see and I remember. = = 91000 Skopje = Telephone: - I do and I understand" = - Republic of Macedonia - +389-91-411-125 = -Confucious - =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 00:12:14 PST Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Kiril Vidimce Skopje Makedonija Subject: Humor #3 BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL #3 So I'm working so hard I barely have time to drive into town and watch a movie before I told people their printing will be ready. The queue's WAAAAY too long to have everything printed (and sorted) by the time I told them, so I kill all the small jobs so there's only 2 left and I can sort them in no time. Then, after the movie, (which was one of those slack Bertolucci ones that takes about 3 hours till the main character is killed off in a visionary experience) I get back and clear the printouts. There's about 50 people waiting outside and I've got two printouts. That's about average for me. I thought I'd killed more tho. Anyway, I put out the printouts and walk slooowly inside, fingering the clipboard with "ACCOUNTS TO REMOVE" in big letters on the back. No-one says anything. As usual. . . . I'm sitting back in the Operations Armchair, watching the computer room closed circuit TV, which just happens to be connected to the frame-grabber's Video player (sent off for repair, due back sometime in '94) when the phone rings. That must be the 2nd time today, and it's really starting to get to me! "Yes?" I say, pausing the picture. "I've accidentally deleted my C.V!" the voice at the other end of the line says. "You have? What was your username?" He tells me. What the hell, I AM bored. "Ah no, you didn't delete it - I did." "What?" "I deleted it. It was full of shit! You didn't ever get more than a B- in any of your subjects!" "Huh?" "And that crap about being a foreign exchange student, that was your girlfriend and we both know it." "Huh?!!" "Your academic records. I checked them, you were lying.." "How did y.." He clicks. "It's you isn't it? THE BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL!" "In the flesh, on the phone and in your account.... You shouldn't have called you know. You especially shouldn't have given me your username.." >clickety< >click< "Neither should you have sent that mail to the System Manager telling him what you think of him in graphic terms..." "I didn't send any.." >clickety< >click<...... "No, you didn't did you? But who can tell these days. Not to worry though, It'll all be over VERY soon.." >clickedy clikc< "..change my username back, and..." "b-b-b.." he blubs, like a stood-up date "Goodbye now" I say pleasantly, "you've got bags to pack and a life to start over..." I hang up. Two seconds later the red phone goes. I pick it up, it's the boss. He mumbles the username of the person I was just talking to, mentions something about a nasty mail message, and utters the words "You know what to do...", with the dots and everything. Later, inside the Municipal Energy Authority Computer, as I'm modifying the poor pleb's Energy Bill by several zeros, I can't help but think about what lapse of judgement - what act of heinous stupidity causes them to call. Then, even later, when I'm adding the poor pleb's photo image over the top of the FBI's online "MOST Wanted Armed and Dangerous, SHOOT ON SIGHT" offenders list, I realise, I'll probably never know; but life goes on. A couple of hours later, as I see the SWAT vehicle roll up outside the poor pleb's apartment I realise that for some, it just doesn't. But tommorrow is another day. KiRe ViDiMCHe =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - Kiril Vidimche - vkire@lotus.mk - "I hear and I forget. - = Bojmija 8/24 = kvidimce@a1.news.mk = I see and I remember. = = 91000 Skopje = Telephone: - I do and I understand" = - Republic of Macedonia - +389-91-411-125 = -Confucious - =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 11:09:37 -0700 Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Perica Babanovski Subject: Vo presret na MOV '95 Vnimanie, sledi vic. Rated: R --------- Mesto na nastan: kafana "LOVAC" - Kumanovo. Na masata prazni ccasski od rakija, poluprazni ccassi so vino, nekolku tavi od kumanovski mezal'k (mmmm, go zaboravivme vo delot za makedonski gurmanluci). Okolu masata isposednato veselo drusstvo i razgovara sekoj so sekogo. Vo glavna uloga: dvajca novo-komponirani bizmismeni (ne e peccatna grsska) od gorespomenatiot grad. - Abe, aj malce tissina, da vi kazzu kako besse, sve po red. Ja i pobro bemo ti, neli, u Milano, u Italiju. Ccule ste za on'j tim kude igra Panccev, neli. E, pa bemo ti mi tamo, u t'j ist grad, da mavamo bizmis sas zzabari. Zavrssimo ssto imasmo da zavrssimo, i odluccimo poslednju veccer da idemo ti mi fino-lepo u teatar. Ccule ste valjda za onija slavni Milanski Slube. Idemo mi da vadimo karte za veccernju pretstavu na balet. Prassuju gu prodavaccku na karte dali ima negde blisko kude da si meznemo sirenje sas salaticcku i da si pijnemo rakijccku. Ona zinala u mene kako tele u ssarena vrata, gleda me i ccudi se. Na kraj mi vika: "Abe, da si kupite joss ednu kartu, pa stavite si meze i rakiju na sedisste izmedju vas, nema problem." Ja gu gledam nessto ccudno, pa vikam: "Aj, nek ti bide. Daj vamo tri karte." E, zemamo ja i pobro meze i rakiju, casske i tanjircciki i pravo u milanski slube. Stignamo tamo tri saata pred poccetak, taman da si zememo dussu malce. Meznamo si ubavo, ama pusta rakija, malce besse. Samo ssto zavrssimo sas mezenje, dojdeva muzikanti i poccnava da sviriv. Abe, ssto da vi kazzuju, nemav blage veze sas muziku. Ovija nassi vranjski cigani mozze da gi vikamo "Maestro" i kapu da im skimnemo. I taman spremimo se sas pobru da si idemo, k'd iskocci ed'n malecak, kelav cciccica, obleccen u kaput sas opass, zastana pred muzikanti, izvadi od pod kaput ednu stapetinku i zapreti im: "Ili ke svirite kako treba, ili ke vi e*u majku!". Abe, da znajess kako ubavo poccnava da sviriv, mene tuga okolo srce me stisnala. Svireva takoj muzikanti, svireva, tiki odedanput dignava se ccerge. K'd tamo, ssto ke vidimo, edna kurva da ti se soblaccala gola. Zdrvi se, jadna, k'd vide deka tolko narod gu gleda, pa fati da trcci navam-natam po daske. Nema kude da se skrie. K'd ono, da ne ti bide sama. Pojavi se i ed'n kurvar koj bija sas njuma. Pa i on k'd gu pomava, jadna, da ne znae dali da bega od njega ili da se krie od publiku. Mavava ti se oni takoj po daske, mavava se, ama na kraj ov'j gu zgrapcci, digna gu gore, pomirissa gu, pa dal mu zasmrde, ssto li mu bidna, k'd gu zadzzipi... I spusstiva se t'ga ccerge. E, toj da ti bide balet. E, ama ne e toj kraj na priccu. Ja i pobro iskaccamo od salu i ssto da vidimo, guzzva se stvara. Aj, da ne iskoccimo prosti, da ne propusstimo nessto ssto ni je pod nos, otidemo da vidimo ssto se dessava. K'd tamo, deliv kaputi. Ja si zema ccetiri, a i pobro ne zema pomalko. Neka se najdev za doma, leb i vodu ne trazziv. Aj, zziveli s'ga. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Se nadevam deka kje vi se dopadne vicot. Dokolku ne, mozze da se zzalite na Kire. I onaka ovie denovi groto od replikite bea nameneti za nego. Pa, da ne izleze ccovekot od forma, nema smisla. Samo se sseguvam. Primetivte, neli? Pozdrav do site MAKEDON-ki/ci/ccinja Perica ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 14:36:03 GMT-5 Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: VLADIMIR OGNJANOVSKI Organization: Indiana State University Subject: Re: Kire & Opozicijata Bube pisuva: > po lugeto koi ja formiraja partijata, (Gosev, Marijanovic, Panovski i dr.) > pobrgu bi gi definiral kako partija na centarot (po malku desno orientirana) Koga se formirase partijata navistina bese partija na centarot, megjutoa podocna zavrte nesto povekje od "malku" kon desno. Toa e i osnovnata pricina zasto partijata (koja iskreno receno imase golemi sansi da gi dobie ovie izbori) pomina slabo na izborite (dali se namesteni ili neorganizirani-toa e diskutabilno prasanje). Partijata (Gosev) gi pravese istite greski na DPMNE. Prvo sto pocna so izrazen anti-albanizam (albanofobija), drugo, dominanten nacin na sopstvena promocija i bese preizrazeno napagjanje na protivnikot po principot "drzte go lopovot" (sto vo eden moment pocna da iritira), namesto sopstvenata promocija i nametnuvanje na glasacot da gi vrsi so istaknuvanje na sopstvenite prednosti (programa, stav kon demokratijata i sl). Da go analizirase dotogasniot nastap na DPMNE, i da ucese od nivnite greski DP sega ke bese partijata sto ke slavese pobeda. > No problemot vo MK e vo toa sto ne postoi politicka > atmosfera, koja bi dozvolila alijansa duri megu politicki subjekti so mnogu > pobliski gledista i interesi. I opozicijata ne se pokaza imuna na nasledstvo > to > na bivsiot sistem i "brain wash"-ot. Samata organizacija na politickite part > ii > vo MK, e primitivna. Site se organizirani po ugled na starit SK, so centraln > i > komiteti. Aktivnosta i imidzot na partiite naj cesto se vrzani za edna licno > st > (liderot na partijata, koj e for ever) ili mala grupa okulu nego. Clenstvoto > > obicno treba samo da slusa, a ako ne se slozuva togas moze da si formira svo > ja > partija (od tuka tolku mnogu partii vo tolku mala zemja). Toa samo govori za nedovolnata zrelost na opozicijata. Ako, nim navistina im e vazna idninata na makedonija, a ne toa koj ke bide na vlast, ke sednea, ke se dogovorea i ke nastapea zaednicki. Megjutoa, site tie "lideri" i lidercinja se tolku samouvereni i bolni za vlast, koja tolku mnogu ja posakuvaat i ne sakaat da ja delat so drugi, sto prosto se zaslepeni i ne gledaat sto se slucuva okolu niv. Posle nekoj drug im e kriv sto komunistite povtorno dobivaat povekje glasovi. Toa go pokazuva i golemiot broj opoziioni partii vo makedonija. Vnatrepartiskata borba ne e borba na razlicni idei, tuku borba za toa koj ke bide lider (ovcar), i sekoj sto ne se slozuva so aktuelniot lider (se sekjavas na ona "hocu da budem kalif umesto kalifa) si formira svoe, pomalo i ne tolku silno stado. Taka namesto vo Makedonija da imame edna ZDRAVA, kvalitatna opoziciona partija vo koja ke se vodi borba megju razlicni (megjutoa ne i sprotivni) idei, imame edno cudo mali i nekvalitetni partiicki, koi sami ama bas nisto ne i mozat na pozicijata. Toa sto e nedostatok na opoziijata e prednost na pozicijata. 3 glavni levo orientirani partii, koi sekogas koga e potrebno, naogjaat zadnicki jazik i nastapuvaat edinstveno. I bidi siguren deka ke gi dobivaat site naredni izbori se dodeka clenovite na opozicijata se borat koj da bide ovcar na svoeto stado. >Samo toj siste > m > ne bi postoel ako ne postojat ovci. A bez ovci nema ni sisanje. > > Po nekogas se prasuvam, dali opozicijata e dovolno vnatresno silna da go sr > usi > ovoj sistem ili samo se obiduva da bide noviot ovcar. Ocigledno e..... Tokmu toe e i poentata na celokupnata moja dosegasna diskusija. Onie sto ja sledat bez "crno-belite" naocari, verojatno svatija deka so nieden zbor ne ja pofaliv segasnata vlast. Daleku sum od pozitivno mislenje za nea. Megjutoa, i pokraj site negativnost sto taa gi pokaza, morame da priznaeme deka ne se bas site nejzini postapki ni tolku losi. Se slozuvam deka e vreme e za promeni, no nema nisto poloso od promena, zaradi promena. A alternativite sto vo momentov ni se nudat se tokmu toa. Ostanuva (kako sto vekje ednas rekov) od trite zla da se izbere najmaloto, sto ama ic ne me raduva. > Levite samo go polzuvaat svojot prirodno > vroden hipokritizam (bratstvo edinstvo=sozitelstvo). Ne, tuku se obiduvaat problemite da gi resat bez pogolemi potresi i na nacin sto ke gi zadovoli i dvete strani. > (dosega kaj niv [albancite] nekoi raboti dosta ubavo rabotat). Toa e zatoa sto se edninstveni vo svoite stavovi, i osnovniot motiv im e nivnite celi da se postignat, a ne im e bitno KOJ ke go ostvari toa. > Samo se plasam da ne zaglavat vo vodite > na malo-graganizmot, kako sto znaese Ligata za Demokratija da zaglavi > porano. Tie mozebi ke bidat glavnata sila za gradenje na noviot sistem. > Jas iskreno se nadevam.... megjutoa, za zal izgleda do togas ke pomine uste mnogu vreme (ucenjeto na tugjite greski nikogas ne ni bilo jaka strana). > Sepak resenieto go gledam vo edukacija vo nov oblik (privatni skoli, > slobodni mediumi). A tuka po se izgleda makedonskata emigracija ke treba > da dade pridones. A vo nea spagame i jas i ti Misko, kako i pogolem del > na preplatnicite na MAKEDON. Ako ne se lazam, toa ne moze da se postigne ako nikoj od nas ne se vrati doma. Vlatko O. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 15:44:34 -0500 Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Zoya Naskova Subject: Re: Pismo do nepoznatoto "drugarce" Zoja. Hey Vlatko Cingoski: Prvo se javuvash na Makedon i si zemash sloboda da me vregash kako jas cel den nishto ne sum rabotela i samo poraki sum chekala. Potoa mi prakash poraki (zoshto privatno, jas nemam nishto da krijam i od nishto ne se sramam?) koishto lugeto tebe ti pratile privatno za da mi se pofalish i da mi dokazhesh deka imash luge na tvoja strana i na nekogo jas sum mu odela na nervi. Pretty pathetic, I would say. Sega pak mi velish: " no nemoj da si zemas takva sloboda da nekogo kogo ne go poznavas dovolno go ramnis na isto ramniste so tebe," koga ti ochigledno si zemash sekakvi slobodi i donesuvash zakljuchoci za mene. Ne mi e jasno od kade ti mene me poznavash, da mozhesh da davash izjavi kako: "Vtoro treba da sfatis deka site ne se kako tebe i deka ima luge vo Makedonija koi so svojot trud i rabota kako i so vrednbostite koi gi poseduvaat uspeale da se izborat za pozicijata i mestoto koja ja imaat vo zivotot." i "ova e samo uste eden dokaz deka premnogu dobro se poznavas sebe si," i t.n. I ushte ednash povtoruvam, ostani na temite koi se zboruvaat na MAKEDON, i prestani lichno da napagash. Tolku jas imav da kazham, ne zasluzhuvash poveke so tebe da si go gubam vremeto. Neka ti e so sreka. Zoya ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 15:59:08 -0500 Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Zoya Naskova Subject: Re: Si odat, si odat... Hi Perica: Jas se slozhuvam so se ti shto kazha. Sepak, ponekogash mi se chini deka nie (Makedoncite) premnogu ochekuvame opshtestvoto da stori za nas. Na primer, stalno se zhalime (veke so godini) za nashata vlada, nashite upraviteli, no nema nekoe poorganizirano dvizhenje neshto da se promeni. Mi izgleda ponekogash deka chekame spasitelot da dojde. Ami, eve neli pak lugeto glasale za istite rakovoditeli, tie shto , spored nekoj, i go dovedoa ova opshtestvo do kade e sega. Site se zhalime za korupcija, no pak "pile ili bomboniera mu nosime na doktorot ili zaposluvachot" (ova e metaforichno, nemoj na vrat da mi ripnete i da go sfatite bukvalno.) Ne velam deka jas ili ti sami mozheme se da promenime, no sekoj mozhe neshto malku/ili mnogu da doprinese. Od druga strana pak, ima korupcija i vo SAD i vrski i rodnini igaat isto golema uloga, samo SAD e tolku ogromna i lugeto se mnogu mobilni, taka da seto toa e na drugo nivo. Ljubljana e dobar primer. Tochno e deka Makedonija treba da gi "neguva" i iskoristvuva svoite talenti. No pokraj toa, makedonskite talenti treba da se inventivni, da prevzemaat inicijativa, da gi mobiliziraat lugeto i da stvaraat sami biznisi i rabotni mesta za sebesi i za drugite. I da, eden nachin e da se pronajdat patishtata za dobivanje na obrazovanie vo dobri svetski univerziteti, kako shto vie ste storile. Da se nauchi kako se raboti na svetsko nivo i da se prenesat znaenjata. na primer, neli zborevme so Boris deka toj, i site vie, treba da napishe kniga za drugite studenti da se zapoznaat so mozhnostite da se studira vo stranstvo. Jas se sekavam koga bev tamu vo uchilishte mislev deka studiranje vo stranstvo e eden nedostapen son za koj morash da imash teshki vrski. Verojatno mnogu drugi deca tamu seushte go delat toj vpechatok. Sakam da kazham , da , ne chini vo Makedonija, no se zavisi od vas/nas dali toa ke se promeni. Ne samo kritiki, tuku i konstruktivni predlozi i reshenija da se diskutiraat. Mozhe ova na mnogu ke im se chini premnogu idealno, no toa chuvstvo na bezpomoshnost e shto gi drzhi makedoncite pokoreni. Amerikancite, od druga strana, sakaat da zhiveat so mototo "I can do anything I set my mind to" and "we are not going to take this." Dodeka nie ne pochneme da ja prevzemame taa filozofija i chekame Gligorov ili Georgievskli ili Goshev da ni ja reshi problematikata, nishto ne pravime. Zoya ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 16:17:14 -0500 Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Zoya Naskova Subject: Re: Kire & Opozicijata RE: Samata organizacija na politickite partii vo MK, e primitivna. Site se organizirani po ugled na starit SK, so centralni komiteti. Aktivnosta i imidzot na partiite naj cesto se vrzani za edna licnost (liderot na partijata, koj e for ever) ili mala grupa okulu nego. Clenstvoto obicno treba samo da slusa, a ako ne se slozuva togas moze da si formira svoja partija (od tuka tolku mnogu partii vo tolku mala zemja). Idejata za partiski konvencii, frakcii i usoglasuvanja na interesi im e na site strana, kolku sto im bese stran poimot demokratija pred 15 god. Partiite ne izgledaat na politi- cki organizacii kade lugeto so isti i slicni interesi i idei se sobrani za da na najdobar nacin istite gi ostvarat, po pat na izlaganje na razliciti stavovi i gledista. Imamame samo odnos na ovcar i stado. Vo takva situacija pozicijata e nadmokna REPLY: Seto ova se vodi na patrijahalniot model na familijata/opshestvoto. Glavata na "familijata" i tie shto treba sosem da go slushaat, koi se isto vo odredena hierarhija. Zoya ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 18:08:17 GMT-5 Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: VLADIMIR OGNJANOVSKI Organization: Indiana State University Subject: Re: Si odat, si odat... Zoya: > No pokraj toa, makedonskite talenti treba da se > inventivni, da prevzemaat inicijativa, da gi mobiliziraat lugeto i da > stvaraat sami biznisi i rabotni mesta za sebesi i za drugite. Se slagam so tebe Zoja. Na toa se odnesuvase i del od mojata diskusija. Megjutoa, kaj nas seuste vazi filozofijata "da si najdam jas ladovina vo drzavna rabota". A, dodeka da ja najdat ladovinata, visat na spisok kako nevraboteni i si go gubat dragocenoto vreme po kafani. Nema vise zagarantirano rabotno mesto. Sekoj treba SAM da si obezbedi egzistencija, a eden od nacinite e i sopstven biznis. Uste eden problem e toa sto kaj nas cim se spomene biznis se misli na bogatenje (pa duri i preku nokj), a ne kako na uste eden od nacinite da se obezbedi pristoen prosecen zivot. > I da, eden > nachin e da se pronajdat patishtata za dobivanje na obrazovanie vo dobri > svetski univerziteti, kako shto vie ste storile. Da se nauchi kako se raboti > na svetsko nivo i da se prenesat znaenjata. A ne da se misli kako da se izbega od tamu i nikogas povekje da ne se vrati... > Sakam da kazham , da , ne chini vo Makedonija, no se zavisi od vas/nas dali > toa ke se promeni. Ne samo kritiki, tuku i konstruktivni predlozi i > reshenija da se diskutiraat. Ne, nie cekame prvo da ni obezbedat idealni uslovi, pa posle da pocneme da predlagame resenija/rabotime/sozdavame. Koga ednas ke svatime deka NIE sme tie sto gi sozdavame uslovite. > Amerikancite, od druga strana, sakaat da zhiveat so mototo "I can > do anything I set my mind to" and " Ona sto najmnogu mi smeta kaj nas e toa sto site razmisluvaat negativno, nihilisticki. Ne moze da ti se sluci nesto ubavo ako non stop ocekuvas da ti se sluci nesto loso. THINK POSITIVE !!! Nekoj predhodno spomna za toa na makedon deka, kaj nas nikoj nikogo ne fali. Ama za toa, za kritikuvanje, prvi sme. Ova ne cini, onoj e glup, onega ne go biva, onoj e kriv sto mene mi e loso... Ova pocnuva uste od osnovno skolo (ucitelkite gi vikaat roditelite samo ako imaat da im kazat deka deteto im e loso), prodolzuva vo sredno, a kulminira na fakultet (profesorot se trudi da vidi kolku NE znaes i sto NE si naucil, a ne kolku znaes). Taka, od strav da ne bide kritikuvan mladiot covek nisto ne ni prezema. Po zavrsuvanjeto na obrazovanieto covekot izleguva taka NEGATIVNO "brainwashed" i nastroen, sto odbrambeniot mehanizam mu nalaga i toj da kritikuva se i sekogo. I taka u krug... Zatoa THINK POSITIVE !!! i ke vidite kako ke trgne na podobro. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Za pocetok, Kire moze da ne informira i za toa kako stojat rabotite na JAZZ festivalot, kako pomina MAKFEST, koj izdal nova kaseta, sto se slucuva vo muzikata (pop - folk). Ne zastana valjda zemjata so izborite... \\"// ) * * ( \___/ Vlatko O. PS. Ne znam dali toa sto probav da go nacrtam lici na "smiley" (poveke lici na kvisko), ama... malku fantazija.... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 1 Nov 1994 19:55:48 EST Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: YES Subject: Re: Humor #1 In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 1 Nov 1994 00:10:59 PST from To whom it may concern: Please remove me from your mailing list effective immediately. Thank You, E. Netos ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 12:28:59 +0100 Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Aleksandar Aleksov Subject: Re: Transliteracija In-Reply-To: <9411011111.AA17423@netway.rz.uni-ulm.de> from "Kiril Vidimce Skopje Makedonija" at Oct 31, 94 07:03:25 pm > > Ne prochitav nikakvi komentari na tekstot za > transliteracija? > 1. Po koj raspored kje pishuvame na ovaa lista? > 2. Zainteresirani li ste za file-ovite koi gi spomenav? > 3. Kje voveduvame li paralelno kirilichno/latinichno > pishuvanje? > > Pozdrav, > KiRe ViDiMCHe > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > - Kiril Vidimche - vkire@lotus.mk - "I hear and I forget. - > = Bojmija 8/24 = kvidimce@a1.news.mk = I see and I remember. = > = 91000 Skopje = Telephone: - I do and I understand" = > - Republic of Macedonia - +389-91-411-125 = -Confucious - > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > Hi this is just a test, I want to check something out, so don't bother. Alex ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 12:46:51 +0100 Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Aleksandar Aleksov Subject: no subject Just hating this system Alex. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 12:56:05 +0100 Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Aleksandar Aleksov Subject: Re: Transliteracija In-Reply-To: <9411021131.AA13579@netway.rz.uni-ulm.de> from "Aleksandar Aleksov" at Nov 2, 94 12:28:59 pm > > Ne prochitav nikakvi komentari na tekstot za > transliteracija? > 1. Po koj raspored kje pishuvame na ovaa lista? > 2. Zainteresirani li ste za file-ovite koi gi spomenav? > 3. Kje voveduvame li paralelno kirilichno/latinichno > pishuvanje? > > Pozdrav, > KiRe ViDiMCHe > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > - Kiril Vidimche - vkire@lotus.mk - "I hear and I forget. - > = Bojmija 8/24 = kvidimce@a1.news.mk = I see and I remember. = > = 91000 Skopje = Telephone: - I do and I understand" = > - Republic of Macedonia - +389-91-411-125 = -Confucious - > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > Hi Kire i site ostanati, bidejki vo Makedonija demokratskite glasanja se osporeni jas predlagam da sprovedema na Makedon edno glasanje za nachinot na transliteracija. 1. Jas sum za sledniov nachin: gj,zh,dz,lj,nj,kj,ch,dzh posebno od prichina shto lj,nj oficijalno taka se pishuva. 2. Za zhal go izbrishav tvojot fajl, taka da nema odgovor za ova. 3. Ne doagja vo predvid, jas sum striktno protiv ! Primi pozdravi od Alex P.S. Ne da sum vljuben vo moeto ime, no koga nekoj od the rest of Makedon kje pratat Mail sekogash pishuva od kogo e porakata, dodeka kaj mene pishuva namesto ime samo To Multiple recipients..... What's wrong !!!! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 14:29:09 +0100 Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Sasha Konechni Subject: Transliteracija In-Reply-To: <9411011111.AA07347@sun4nl.NL.net> > Ne prochitav nikakvi komentari na tekstot za > transliteracija? > 1. Po koj raspored kje pishuvame na ovaa lista? Mene mi izgleda deka najdobro bi bilo da pochneme da ja koristime transliteracijata predlozena vo predlog standardot, (C) Medis Informatika 1994, imeno tockata (E) vo pismoto od Kire. Imam tuke edno prasanje, zamerka. Ovaa tranliteracija se razlikuva smao vo edna bukva od povkjeto drugi transliteracii koi shto jas sum gi videl i upotrebuval. Se raboti za kirilichnata bukva "C" kako vo cveke ili Goce Ovaa bukva vo poveketo transliteracii se pisuva so dve latinksi bukvi: TS tsveke, ili Gotse Me interesira dali nekoj znae zoshto vo Makedonskata transliteracija predlozhena od Medis Informatika ne e upotrebeno "ts" tuku "c"? Kako shto gledate i jas samiot upotrebuvam "c" namesto "ts". Ova go pravam bidejkji mi e polesno, no se prashuvam dali mozhebi ne e podobro da se koristi neshto shto e vekje vo shiroka upotreba, otkolku neshto shto e vo upotreba samo megju nas. Imam ushte edno prasanje. Dali nekoj znae shto kje bide so oficijalnite dokumenti, kako na primer pasoshi i izvodi od matichni knigi. Imeno, transliteracijata na Makedonskite iminja na ovie dokumenti e mnogu vazhna rabota, narochno za nas koi sme nadvor od M. Dosega na ovie dokumenti se koristeshe Hrvatskata latinica, shto e mnogu nezgodna tuka vo stranstvo. Na primer moeto ime na makedonskiot pasosh e napishano: v Sasa Se razbira deka vo stranstvo najchesto nemaat mozhnosti da go napishat sh so kapata i toa se pretvara vo "s", taka da moeto ime stanuva Sasa Ova nikoj ne znae kako da go izgovori. Mnogu bi bilo fino koga i na pasoshite i drugite dokumenti bi se upotrebuvala transliteracijata predlozena od Medis. Me intresira dali ima nekoi oficijalni predlozi vo Makedonija i vo vrska so ova? > 2. Zainteresirani li ste za file-ovite koi gi spomenav? Jas rabotam na Unix i Mac. No verojatno e dobro da gi stavime programite na nekoe mesto kade shto ke bidat pritapni do site, pa koj saka mozhe da si gi zeme. Edno mozhno mesto e databankata na listserverot kade shoto e makedon. Treba da se vidi samo kako ova da se izvede tehnichki. > 3. Kje voveduvame li paralelno kirilichno/latinichno > pishuvanje? > Ova mi izgleda mnogu teshko izvodlivo vo praktika. Niz svetov se upotrebuvaat mnogu razlichni kompjuteri, Unix, Vax, Mac, PC, i mnogu drugi od lugjeto koi chitaat makedon. PC se samo eden mal del od upotrebuvanite. Softwerot koj shto momentalno postoi e samo za PC. Ovoj software da se prevede na sekoj mozhen sistem e golema rabota i teshko izvodliva. Sasha ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 12:27:46 +0100 Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Aleksandar Aleksov Subject: transliteracija zdravo Kire i site ostanati, Bidejki vo Makedonija demokratskite glasanja se osporeni, barem nie da glasame za metodot na koj shto kje komunicirame preku makedon. Se nadevam deka barem tuka nema da ima manipulacii... 1. Jas sum za metodot ch,sh,zh,dzh,gj,kj,lj,nj - pogotovo poradi toa shto lj,gj,lj,nj se vo oficijalna upotreba. 2. Za zhal go izbrishav tvojot tekst, a memorijava ne me sluzhi bash najdobro, taka da neznam za koi fajlovi zboruvash. 3. No way, nikako paralelno kirilica i latinica, jas sum protiv toa. Pozdravi Alex ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 08:47:27 -0500 Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: bage Subject: jogurt i burek To: makedon@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu Subject: jogurt i burek Edno osvezuvajne: Jogurt i burek Edemo ja i Stefka burek, i cudimo se. Dobar burek, nema ni mnogo voda u jogurt. Zasto? Sto e razlog za dobar kvalitet i zasto e dobar burek k't ni pekari ni direktor na mlekari ne se kandidirav za pratenici? Takoj mislejci zasto ga pogodile pekari burek i zasto opozicija gi utnala izbori, pocnamo jos po ed'n cetvrt s's meso. Objasnue mi ona s's mrsni ruke kako vu dale dvojku na izbiracko mesto zatoj sto gu nemalo u spisak a nemala ni uverenje za drzavjanstvo, a ja s's puni usta vikam "Takoj e! Trebaja e Frckovski da dojde licno kude tebe i da ti donese 100 grama kafe i uverenje za drzavjanstvo, posto ti celu godinu prodavas zevala i ne moga da si izvadis edno uverenje!" Zazbori se covek pa se zabravi. K't se osvestimo, iskoci deka smo izele po dva cetvrta i dve osminke, po stomak i usta na gragjanke sto gi nema u izbiracki spisak! Samo sto iskocimo od "Beli peciva" i pojdemo nakude pazar, pocna Stefka da ofka, da se sviva i da zapomaga, kako da vu e Pero Gosev od cicu brat! "Ovoj e falsifikat burek, ovoj e sabotaza i namestaljka, skida me zeludac i obrca mi se stomak!" Tam'n da gu pridrzu i da gu odvedu do prvu klupu, snemogna i ja! Muka mi, loso mi! Pocna da pljukam kako opozicija, ama nacionalna, i da trazu sodu bikarbonu u tasnu! Idemo dvete, tetravimo se, zanesamo se, neznaemo sto da pravimo. Ja kako VMRO u desno, ona kako Demokratska u centar, pa na desno! Da idemo natamo, da ne idemo, da stoimo, da senemo.. Nema sanse da stignemo do pazar, svesni smo, ama inaet ne ni dava da se vratimo s's prazni krosnje! Ne se trpi muka od stomak, ne mozemo natamo peski do pazar i nazad, ama ne se trpi majtap od Evku k't ce ne vidi kude se vracamo prazni od pazar: "sto e ovoj komsike, ostanase vi omiljeni partie bez glasovi, a vi gledam ostanale ste bez pazrl'k! Duplo prazno!" Svesni za poseldice, iznenadeni i zbunjeni od neocekuvan razvoj na dogagjaji, pocnamo da se vrtimo u krug da najdemo nekoe avto, polk drzejci se za stomak da se odvlecemo do doma, ama Stefka insistirase da napravimo na lice mesto miting i ed'n miran protest s's nemirno vikanje i parole: "Uaaa burek! Izlzavane da se pree(j)demo! Sve da se ponisti, da ni gi vrativ pare i mesto s's meso da si kupime burek s's sirenje, ili eventualno po dve mekice!" Kako se bese zapalila Stefka, ona bese spremna i da telefonira od prvu kafanu i da ga vika prestavnici KEBS, Savet za Evropu i sl. ama ja zastana pred njum kako Ljupce pred masu pred Sobranie i kaza: "Am'n nemoj, i mi ce se izblanirano! sto ako ne prasav koj ne teraja da edemo po ednu tepsiju burek? Sto ako kazev deka drzava i megjunarodna zaednica ne odgovarav za golem apetit i mal kapacitet na zeludnik na dve gladne za vlast, odnosno burek, partiski opredelene zene?" I dobro sto gu smiri! Ne se buta drzava i ne se praviv nemiri zatoj sto nekoga ne ga izglasale, a ne se ide ni protiv kumanovski burek i nadaleko cuen jogurt zatoj sto na nekoga mu se usladilo, pa zaboravija kolko i sto moze! Plus toj, ov'j narot e na kraj na izdrzljivost! Izdrza muski kampanju za prv krug, izdrza zenski izbori, s'k se trudi da izdrzi silno vikanje i plakanje na deca sto mislejale deka ce gi dadev cokoladu a dale gi lizavce. Dali s'k mi dve treba da ga dokusurimo? Sto e drzava bez vlas i sto e dorucak bez burek? Nisto! Doma k't stignamo, cutajce ulegnamo u portu i odma ispimo po edn "reglan". Ne rucamo, preskocimo gu i veceru, samo ne gu preskocimo emisiju u koju pozicija i opozicija se raspravljava zasto da idev i zasto da ne idev u drugi krug. Gledamo i cutamo. Samo u edn moment k't mu se obrna Ljupco na Frcka i k't mu kaza sve sto mu tekna, k't mu nabroi za sto sve e kriv, Stefka plesna s's ruke: "Mico, pa ov'j zabravi da mu kaze deka e kriv i za nas burek!? steta, b's ubavo i efektno ce si ga zavrsese govor!" Ja ne moga nisto da kazu, posto on k't zavrsi pojde mi nesto nagore. Zatoj odma se fati za kutiju lekovi i udri jos ed'n reglan, a kako pojacanje i ed'n apaurin. Pozdrav od Stefka i Mica ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 13:04:47 PST Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Kiril Vidimce Skopje Makedonija Subject: Humor #11 Po greshka, prikaznata za Operatorot vo Humor #10 beshe skratena. Eve ja vo kompletnata verzija, koja ima i soodveten kraj. BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL #10 I get invited to a lecture as a guest speaker in "Computing Operations Fundamentals", so I leave the control room in the capable hands of Sam, the janitor and cruise on down. The lecture starts and goes ok, then there's a 10 minute period where students get to ask a "real operator" questions that they have about operations. I get out my pad and pen. "Before we get started" I say, "could you just call out your username before you ask me a question, I find it easier to apply your problem to terms you would understand better" The lecturer eats all this up - the personal touch really gets to them. "First Question, You over there.." "What do you think of the privacy of individuals on a shared system?" "What was your username please?" "CMS1103" >Scratchy scritch< "Computer Privacy... Hmmm. This is a toughy really. You mean stuff like reading the email between you and your counsellor about you not wanting to come out of the closet?" "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGH!" "AH. Well, he seems to have left - must have picked a bad COMPLETELY RANDOM example. Next question. You, over there..." "CMS1136. I was.." "Ah yes, 1136 the only person on campus who subscribes to alt.sex.buggery.by. sailors.dressed.in.mums.clothing" "It's purely for research purposes!" "I'm sure it is. You do a lot of story posting for a researcher don't you?" "NNGggggAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGHGH!" "Next please..." ... .. Two minutes later, the lecture theatre's empty. That's the problem with students today, they just don't want to learn. I go back to control and Sam's asleep at the console again. I think he's after my job. I make a mental note to tap into the salary database and cancel his health and accident insurance payments. You can't be too careful.. I put the phone on the hook for the first time this afternoon and it starts ringing almost immediately. THAT'S IT! I redirect it to 911 catch a bit of shuteye. That'll teach them. OOPS! Almost forgot to turn over the excuse calendar. "STATIC FROM NYLON UNDERWEAR" Nope, too plausable - although in some cases I could do an on-site check. Nah, can't be stuffed. I'll pick another one. "STATIC FROM PLASTIC SLIDE RULES" Now THAT'S one with a challenge! I unredirect the phone and drag the rubbish bin so it rests on the printer's stacker - another job well done. The phone rings - this could be the big one! "Hello?" "Hi, Um, how do I spell-check my file?" "Simple, just type `spell' and the filename" "Thanks". I'm so bloody nice this morning. Especially as I know that my version of spell introduces errors instead of detecting them. Things like changing friend to freind and vice-versa. What the hell. The phone rings - it's them again. "There's something wrong with spell". "What makes you think that?" "Because my file is all corrupt now!" "That doesn't sound like spell to me. Are you logged into thru PC?" "Yes, but I can.." "Please, leave the technical diagnosis to me... Now, is there a plastic ruler somewhere on or in the desk?" "Um >clunka<, yes..." "Right. You've got a static buildup on your hard-drive caused by the changing electrostatic field generated by the ruler - the same one that makes bits of paper stick to it when you rub it up and down your arm..." DUMMY MODE ON "Oh. What do I do?" "You know how you get paper off a ruler by hitting it on a table lots of times? Well do that with your PC. Say 20 times - lift it about a foot off the desk & drop it." "Oh. OK" >crash< >crash< >crash< "Um, the screen went dark" "That's ok, it's supposed to do that - keep going. And when you're finished, do the screen as well, that static may have gone up the wires to it." >crash< >crash< >crash<... I hang up. I get up and go out to the public area to put honey in the floppy drives when a guy who looked like Lee Harvey Oswald runs up to me and shoots me, only the sound comes from the machine room, and I can hear the ex System-Managers chuckle.... Later, in the ambulance, I realise. I forgot to get the guys username... Then everything goes dark. --------- KiRe ViDiMCHe =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - Kiril Vidimche - vkire@lotus.mk - "I hear and I forget. - = Bojmija 8/24 = kvidimce@a1.news.mk = I see and I remember. = = 91000 Skopje = Telephone: - I do and I understand" = - Republic of Macedonia - +389-91-411-125 = -Confucious - =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 13:05:58 PST Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Kiril Vidimce Skopje Makedonija Subject: Pozicija-Opozicija Vlatko reche: > Toa samo govori za nedovolnata zrelost na opozicijata. Ako, nim > navistina im e vazna idninata na makedonija, a ne toa koj ke bide na > vlast, ke sednea, ke se dogovorea i ke nastapea zaednicki. Megjutoa, > site tie "lideri" i lidercinja se tolku samouvereni i bolni za vlast, > koja tolku mnogu ja posakuvaat i ne sakaat da ja delat so drugi, sto > prosto se zaslepeni i ne gledaat sto se slucuva okolu niv. Posle nekoj > drug im e kriv sto komunistite povtorno dobivaat povekje glasovi. > > Toa go pokazuva i golemiot broj opoziioni partii vo makedonija. > Vnatrepartiskata borba ne e borba na razlicni idei, tuku borba za toa > koj ke bide lider (ovcar), i sekoj sto ne se slozuva so aktuelniot > lider (se sekjavas na ona "hocu da budem kalif umesto kalifa) si > formira svoe, pomalo i ne tolku silno stado. Taka namesto vo > Makedonija da imame edna ZDRAVA, kvalitatna opoziciona partija vo > koja ke se vodi borba megju razlicni (megjutoa ne i sprotivni) idei, > imame edno cudo mali i nekvalitetni partiicki, koi sami ama bas nisto > ne i mozat na pozicijata. > > Toa sto e nedostatok na opoziijata e prednost na pozicijata. 3 glavni > levo orientirani partii, koi sekogas koga e potrebno, naogjaat > zadnicki jazik i nastapuvaat edinstveno. I bidi siguren deka ke gi > dobivaat site naredni izbori se dodeka clenovite na opozicijata se > borat koj da bide ovcar na svoeto stado. > > Ocigledno e..... Tokmu toe e i poentata na celokupnata moja dosegasna > diskusija. Onie sto ja sledat bez "crno-belite" naocari, verojatno > svatija deka so nieden zbor ne ja pofaliv segasnata vlast. Daleku sum > od pozitivno mislenje za nea. Megjutoa, i pokraj site negativnost sto > taa gi pokaza, morame da priznaeme deka ne se bas site nejzini > postapki ni tolku losi. Se slozuvam deka e vreme e za promeni, no > nema nisto poloso od promena, zaradi promena. A alternativite sto vo > momentov ni se nudat se tokmu toa. Ostanuva (kako sto vekje ednas > rekov) od trite zla da se izbere najmaloto, sto ama ic ne me raduva. > > Levite samo go polzuvaat svojot prirodno > > vroden hipokritizam (bratstvo edinstvo=sozitelstvo). > > > Ne, tuku se obiduvaat problemite da gi resat bez pogolemi potresi i > na nacin sto ke gi zadovoli i dvete strani. Celovo ova go citirav bidejkji me zaintesira tvojata rechenica deka so nieden zbor ne si ja pofalil segashnata vlast. A celiot citat se sostoi od falbi. Anyway, 1. Velish deka opozicijata e bolna za vlast, shto ne go odbivam an blok (sigurno go ima i toa), no, i ne go prifakjam kako neshto stoprocentno tochno. Od druga strana pak, "zaboravash" da kazhesh deka istoto e i so pozicijata. Ili pak mislish deka bidejkji sega se tie na vlast, oni vekje zaboravile shto e toa glad, borba za taa ista vlast i deka kje ostanat tamu samo ako nekoj im reche? Ne. Mislam deka okolu borbata za vlast, ne mozheme a da ne recheme deka i pozicijata i opozicijata potpolno isto se odnesuvaat, t.e. ostavaat takov vpechatok. 2. Velish deka trite levi partii sekogash rabotat so konsenzus. Me interesira dali povtorno kje go kazhesh istoto, koga (ako) kje javat deka SDSM formirala ednopartiska vlada, kako shto beshe vchera najaveno na A1. :)) Izgleda deka onie shto ne se gladni za vlast, naednash se polakomija? :)) Spored NM, SDSM vekje ima 57 pratenici, a spored televiziite, vekje ima 61 pratenik, shto znachi i ne e nezamislivo tokmu toa da se sluchi - SDSM sam da formira vlada i da gi shutne LP i SP vo opozicija. Seto toa i ne e taka zaprepastuvachki, koga kje se znae faktot deka vo proshlite 3 godini, LP najmnogu zemashe pari i deka Stojan Andov praktichno ja finansirashe kampanjata na SZM (ne toj lichno, nego so partiski pari). Zarem mislite deka takva lamja kakva shto e SDSM bi dozvolila takvo neshto da se sluchuva i vo idnina? Prva prilika - SDSM kje go shutne LP, pa togash kje pravime muabet za konsenzusi pomegju trite levi partii. 3. Velish deka pozicijata saka da gi reshi problemite bez potresi. Mislam deka e moshe lesno da se predvidat problemite koi tek kje se stvorat so reshavenje na prethodnite problemi so odrzhuvanje na status-quo, otegnuvanje na problemot, nametnati privremeni reshenija i sl. Pozdrav, KiRe ViDiMCHe =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - Kiril Vidimche - vkire@lotus.mk - "I hear and I forget. - = Bojmija 8/24 = kvidimce@a1.news.mk = I see and I remember. = = 91000 Skopje = Telephone: - I do and I understand" = - Republic of Macedonia - +389-91-411-125 = -Confucious - =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 13:06:57 PST Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: Kiril Vidimce Skopje Makedonija Subject: Sistem Vlatko reche: > > No pokraj toa, makedonskite talenti treba da se > > inventivni, da prevzemaat inicijativa, da gi mobiliziraat lugeto i da > > stvaraat sami biznisi i rabotni mesta za sebesi i za drugite. > > Se slagam so tebe Zoja. Na toa se odnesuvase i del od mojata > diskusija. Megjutoa, kaj nas seuste vazi filozofijata "da si najdam > jas ladovina vo drzavna rabota". A, dodeka da ja najdat ladovinata, > visat na spisok kako nevraboteni i si go gubat dragocenoto vreme po > kafani. Nema vise zagarantirano rabotno mesto. Sekoj treba SAM da si > obezbedi egzistencija, a eden od nacinite e i sopstven biznis. Uste > eden problem e toa sto kaj nas cim se spomene biznis se misli na > bogatenje (pa duri i preku nokj), a ne kako na uste eden od nacinite > da se obezbedi pristoen prosecen zivot. Se slozhuvam. Nemoj da mislish deka jas lichno mislam deka vladata e losha bidejkji ne im obezbedila mesto pod sonceto. Ona shto jas go velam e deka Vladata treba da ti obezbedi uslovi vo koi ti mozhesh da go najdesh svoeto mesto pod sonceto. A za nihilizmot - seto toa e posledica od shkolskiot sistem, za koj i samiot ukazha deka e katastrofalen. Eve, lichen primer. Celo moe shkoluvanje se trudev da ukazhuvam na nedostatocite na shkolskiot sistem, nikogash ne odev "ladno" spored nametnatite pravila koi ja unisthuvaat zdravata logika na uchenicite i gi pretvoruvaat vo beznadezhni roboti koi samo chekaat neshto da im se kazhe i da napravat. Za ovoj sistem e krivo min. za obrazovanie. I seto toa ne bi bilo tolku strashno koga povekjeto profesori bi prevzemale del od rabotite vo svoi race i bi napravile soodvetni izmeni. No, za zhal, tokmu tie se onie koi revnosno go primenuvaat propadnatiot sistem. Primer: onie koi se obiduvaat da ukazhat na slabostite - najmnogu nastraduvaat i se okvalifikuvaat kako 'buntovnici bez prichina' itn. I kako posle seto toa da rechesh deka imash zdrava sredina za razvoj, koga de facto nemash? > > I da, eden > > nachin e da se pronajdat patishtata za dobivanje na obrazovanie vo dobri > > svetski univerziteti, kako shto vie ste storile. Da se nauchi kako se raboti > > na svetsko nivo i da se prenesat znaenjata. > > A ne da se misli kako da se izbega od tamu i nikogas povekje da ne se > vrati... Se osekjam prozvan (ne se lutam). Prashanjeto ne e dali smee ili ne smee da se razmisluva taka - prashanjeto e zoshto mladite razmisluvaat na toj nachin. Veruvaj, do pred 6 meseci nemav namera da "izbegam". Duri bev tolkav idealista (naivec ili kako sakash kazhi go) i ne sakav ni da odam vo USA da zavrsham IV godina i pokraj toa shto mi se nudeshe taa mozhnost. Veruvav deka chovek ako se izbori, deka mozhe da promeni barem del od sistemot. No, "otkriv" deka za se postoi nekoja granichna linija, posle koja sfakjash deka se borish so veternici i deka promeni vo ovaa sirota pusta zemja definitivno nema da nastapat ushte dooolgo vreme, pred se, bidejkji najgolemiot del od lugjeto koi se sposobni taa promena da ja napravat - voopshto ne sakaat da ja napravat, a shto e ushte polosho, onie na koi najmnogu im trebaat tie promeni, ili seushte ne sfatile deka tie promeni navistina im trebaat ili pak si teraat po ona staroto deka "navednata glava, sabja ne seche". Ne veruvam deka promeni mozhat da nastapat preku nokj. Fakt e deka ne mozhe toa odednash da se sluchi i vlasta da se sostavi iskluchivo od kvalitetni i kompetentni lugje, no, spored mene, moshne vozmozhno e da se sostavi vlast koja kje ima odreden sluh za promenite, so shto dobar del od kvalitetnite lugje na posreden ili neposreden nachin kje se vkluchat vo toj proces. Kako posledica od tie promeni, sledniot mandat kje se sostavi ushte pokvalitetna vlada i toj proces kje teche. Problemot e shto takov proces ne se predviduva od strana na aktuelnata vlast. > > Sakam da kazham , da , ne chini vo Makedonija, no se zavisi od vas/nas dali > > toa ke se promeni. Ne samo kritiki, tuku i konstruktivni predlozi i > > reshenija da se diskutiraat. > > Ne, nie cekame prvo da ni obezbedat idealni uslovi, pa posle da > pocneme da predlagame resenija/rabotime/sozdavame. Koga ednas ke > svatime deka NIE sme tie sto gi sozdavame uslovite. Greshish. Uslovite se sozdavaat koga kje go zavrshish svoeto obrazovanie, no, dodeka si vo obrazovniot sistem, DRUGI ti gi sozdavaat uslovite. Da, da, znam deka kje rechesh deka chovek mozhe da raboti na svoja raka - tokmu toa go pravam vekje 12 godini, no, dali e navistina polezno za opsthestvoto taka, sekoj na svoja raka da go usovrshuva svoeto obrazovanie ili pak toa usovrshuvanje da se vodi preku dirigentskata palka na samiot sistem? Vprochem, prashanje e kolku lugje kje gi prevzemat rabotite vo svoi race. Pogledni gi samo studentite i studentskite organizacii. Edinstveniot motiv i cel na najgolemiot del od studentite e kako-taka da se stigne do diploma, a NE im e cel da se zdobijat so nekakvo znaenje, so nekakov kvalitet koj podocna bi go primenile. Ova osobeno e karakteristichno za studentite od vnatreshnosta (50% od site studenti) koi ako treba bi bile i gazeni i tepani od strana na prof. i sistemot - samo za da stignat do parcheto hartija, koe praktichno nishto ne zhachi. > > Amerikancite, od druga strana, sakaat da zhiveat so mototo "I can > > do anything I set my mind to" and " > > Ona sto najmnogu mi smeta kaj nas e toa sto site razmisluvaat > negativno, nihilisticki. Ne moze da ti se sluci nesto ubavo ako non > stop ocekuvas da ti se sluci nesto loso. THINK POSITIVE !!! Nekoj > predhodno spomna za toa na makedon deka, kaj nas nikoj nikogo ne fali. > Ama za toa, za kritikuvanje, prvi sme. Ova ne cini, onoj e glup, > onega ne go biva, onoj e kriv sto mene mi e loso... Ova pocnuva uste > od osnovno skolo (ucitelkite gi vikaat roditelite samo ako imaat da > im kazat deka deteto im e loso), prodolzuva vo sredno, a kulminira na > fakultet (profesorot se trudi da vidi kolku NE znaes i sto NE si > naucil, a ne kolku znaes). Taka, od strav da ne bide kritikuvan > mladiot covek nisto ne ni prezema. > > Po zavrsuvanjeto na obrazovanieto covekot izleguva taka NEGATIVNO > "brainwashed" i nastroen, sto odbrambeniot mehanizam mu nalaga i toj > da kritikuva se i sekogo. I taka u krug... Zatoa THINK POSITIVE !!! > i ke vidite kako ke trgne na podobro. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Se slozhuvam so sevo ova. I nemoj da mislish deka ne mislam positive. Tokmu zatoa i baram promeni. > Za pocetok, Kire moze da ne informira i za toa kako stojat rabotite > na JAZZ festivalot, kako pomina MAKFEST, koj izdal nova kaseta, sto > se slucuva vo muzikata (pop - folk). Ne zastana valjda zemjata so > izborite... Ne si svesen kolku navistina zastana zemjava zaradi izborite. :)) Duri i grupite se vrtkaa natamu-navamu po mitinzi, konvencii itn, pa taka nastana nekoja polarizacija duri i kaj estradnite umetnici (Igor Dzhambazov bukvalno beshe vo ekstaza koga izvikuvashe "Za Sojuzot za Makedonija!"). Za Jazz-ot, za zhal, ne mozham mnogu da kazham, bidejkji ne najdov vreme da otidam na nieden koncert. Se spremav da odam na Chick Korea, no, koga ja vidov programata (Korea imashe solo piano koncert), se otkazhav, bidejkji, IMHO, Jazz ne e Jazz ako nemash maximalna ispolnetost na prostorot i toa so povekje ispolnuvachi i povekje instrumenti. Za MAKFEST ne me prashuvaj, takvi raboti ne sum pratel, niti kje pratam. Za onie shto se interesiraa za filmot "Before the rain". Denovive slushnav nekoj report deka filmot zapochnal da se prikazhuva niz Kanada, a MISLAM deka rekoa i niz Amerika. Vnimavajte na kino repertoarot vo svoite gradovi! :) Pozdrav, KiRe ViDiMCHe =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= - Kiril Vidimche - vkire@lotus.mk - "I hear and I forget. - = Bojmija 8/24 = kvidimce@a1.news.mk = I see and I remember. = = 91000 Skopje = Telephone: - I do and I understand" = - Republic of Macedonia - +389-91-411-125 = -Confucious - =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Nov 1994 13:39:20 -0500 Reply-To: Macedonian Discussion List Sender: Macedonian Discussion List From: yane Subject: Kumanovski Burek so Jogur To: makedon@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu Subject: Kumanovski Burek so Jogurt (humoreska) Po izlivite na bes i nemok na nekoi frustrirani osobi na MAKEDON po izborite vo MK, predlagam malce humor. I, eve go vo tekstot sto sledi. Se nadevam deka za burekot ne e kriva pozicijata. Yane.... ____________________________________________________________________ Edno osvezuvajne: Jogurt i burek Edemo ja i Stefka burek, i cudimo se. Dobar burek, nema ni mnogo voda u jogurt. Zasto? Sto e razlog za dobar kvalitet i zasto e dobar burek k't ni pekari ni direktor na mlekari ne se kandidirav za pratenici? Takoj mislejci zasto ga pogodile pekari burek i zasto opozicija gi utnala izbori, pocnamo jos po ed'n cetvrt s's meso. Objasnue mi ona s's mrsni ruke kako vu dale dvojku na izbiracko mesto zatoj sto gu nemalo u spisak a nemala ni uverenje za drzavjanstvo, a ja s's puni usta vikam "Takoj e! Trebaja e Frckovski da dojde licno kude tebe i da ti donese 100 grama kafe i uverenje za drzavjanstvo, posto ti celu godinu prodavas zevala i ne moga da si izvadis edno uverenje!" Zazbori se covek pa se zabravi. K't se osvestimo, iskoci deka smo izele po dva cetvrta i dve osminke, po stomak i usta na gragjanke sto gi nema u izbiracki spisak! Samo sto iskocimo od "Beli peciva" i pojdemo nakude pazar, pocna Stefka da ofka, da se sviva i da zapomaga, kako da vu e Pero Gosev od cicu brat! "Ovoj e falsifikat burek, ovoj e sabotaza i namestaljka, skida me zeludac i obrca mi se stomak!" Tam'n da gu pridrzu i da gu odvedu do prvu klupu, snemogna i ja! Muka mi, loso mi! Pocna da pljukam kako opozicija, ama nacionalna, i da trazu sodu bikarbonu u tasnu! Idemo dvete, tetravimo se, zanesamo se, neznaemo sto da pravimo. Ja kako VMRO u desno, ona kako Demokratska u centar, pa na desno! Da idemo natamo, da ne idemo, da stoimo, da senemo.. Nema sanse da stignemo do pazar, svesni smo, ama inaet ne ni dava da se vratimo s's prazni krosnje! Ne se trpi muka od stomak, ne mozemo natamo peski do pazar i nazad, ama ne se trpi majtap od Evku k't ce ne vidi kude se vracamo prazni od pazar: "sto e ovoj komsike, ostanase vi omiljeni partie bez glasovi, a vi gledam ostanale ste bez pazrl'k! Duplo prazno!" Svesni za poseldice, iznenadeni i zbunjeni od neocekuvan razvoj na dogagjaji, pocnamo da se vrtimo u krug da najdemo nekoe avto, polk drzejci se za stomak da se odvlecemo do doma, ama Stefka insistirase da napravimo na lice mesto miting i ed'n miran protest s's nemirno vikanje i parole: "Uaaa burek! Izlzavane da se pree(j)demo! Sve da se ponisti, da ni gi vrativ pare i mesto s's meso da si kupime burek s's sirenje, ili eventualno po dve mekice!" Kako se bese zapalila Stefka, ona bese spremna i da telefonira od prvu kafanu i da ga vika prestavnici KEBS, Savet za Evropu i sl. ama ja zastana pred njum kako Ljupce pred masu pred Sobranie i kaza: "Am'n nemoj, i mi ce se izblanirano! sto ako ne prasav koj ne teraja da edemo po ednu tepsiju burek? Sto ako kazev deka drzava i megjunarodna zaednica ne odgovarav za golem apetit i mal kapacitet na zeludnik na dve gladne za vlast, odnosno burek, partiski opredelene zene?" I dobro sto gu smiri! Ne se buta drzava i ne se praviv nemiri zatoj sto nekoga ne ga izglasale, a ne se ide ni protiv kumanovski burek i nadaleko cuen jogurt zatoj sto na nekoga mu se usladilo, pa zaboravija kolko i sto moze! Plus toj, ov'j narot e na kraj na izdrzljivost! Izdrza muski kampanju za prv krug, izdrza zenski izbori, s'k se trudi da izdrzi silno vikanje i plakanje na deca sto mislejale deka ce gi dadev cokoladu a dale gi lizavce. Dali s'k mi dve treba da ga dokusurimo? Sto e drzava bez vlas i sto e dorucak bez burek? Nisto! Doma k't stignamo, cutajce ulegnamo u portu i odma ispimo po edn "reglan". Ne rucamo, preskocimo gu i veceru, samo ne gu preskocimo emisiju u koju pozicija i opozicija se raspravljava zasto da idev i zasto da ne idev u drugi krug.